SR22 Engine

Hi!
I flew a SR22 and found that the engine vibrations are quite important (at cruising RPM). This one is a 4 points mount engine. Is that normal? I had flown a new 22GTS and did not have theses vibrations.
Thanks for your help!
Best regards,
Chris

Yes, the 4 point mount has more vibration. I had my serial number 340 ungraded to the 6 point mount and the vibration is a lot better. The degree of vibration on the 4 point mount planes varies a lot from plane to plane.

In reply to:


Hi!
I flew a SR22 and found that the engine vibrations are quite important (at cruising RPM). This one is a 4 points mount engine. Is that normal? I had flown a new 22GTS and did not have theses vibrations.
Thanks for your help!
Best regards,
Chris


Christian:

There is a considerable variation in the vibration level from aircraft to aircraft.

I have had my SR22 since new in 2002. I have never considered that the plane has significant vibration. There is a fairly high noise level which is attentuated very nicely by the Bose Aviation X headsets but there is no noticable vibration. That is, if I put any part of the aircraft, I don’t feel any vibration. If there is vibration on the floor, I don’t feel it through shoes.

I am not an engineer, but the noise signature seems to be in the middle to upper range.

I am not clear as to which SR22 you flew, but you may have found one with a high vibration level. In answer to your question, no, it is not normal.

The 6 point mount is clearly a factor in reducing vibration levels. However, not all 4 point mount SR22s need the 6 point mount.

Whether the variation is inside the engine or otherwise I don’t know. It may be that I just lucked out and got a particularly well balanced engine. It may be the way the engine and the mount interact in my plane. It may even be that someone else might perceive vibration in my plane that is excessive (although I think I have a pretty sensitive touch with machinery to find vibration).

If you are looking for an earlier SR22 keep in mind that there is a significant vibration level between different aircraft.

For more detailed information on this look at the archives. You will probably find a number of threads on the subject as it was discussed at length some time ago.

Christian,

I owned an '03 SR22 for about 3 years (#518, 4-pt mount).

Coming from a 4-cyl Grumman Tiger, the 6-cyl Cirrus always felt pretty smooth to me.

I flew Trip’s dad’s GTS round-trip to M3. It felt moderately smoother than my plane, but certainly not “orders-of-magnitude” smoother. I must admit that when I again jumped into my plane it did feel a bit “coarser” than I had remembered it.

But nowhere near enough to justify $6,000 (and now much more) for the 6-pt, at least IMHO.

We have just ordered the 6 point motor mount for our SR22 (#72) since the vibration is noticeable. It has always bothered me, and you can see it in the wings as well. I agree that the vibration varies from 22 to 22, but the upgrade worth doing though pricy. If you noticed how smooth the G2 you flew was, then your plane likely benefit from the upgrade as well. After researching the resale market you will find the upgrade will increase the market value at least $10,000.

Another item you should watch which causes vibration is the nose wheel. If the bushing is loose, or if your mechanic happens to lube it (like ours did once), the nose wheel will vibrate during flight. Also, this will result in violent shimmy during landing. So after you upgrades, and feel some vibration later, watch your landing as you will need to set the nose down softly and get it serviced.

In reply to:


Yes, the 4 point mount has more vibration. I had my serial number 340 ungraded to the 6 point mount and the vibration is a lot better. The degree of vibration on the 4 point mount planes varies a lot from plane to plane.


Agree with Brians answer. I would add more detail. Cirrus has a Service Bulletin to change to a 6 point mount for the old 4 point planes. It is a nice thing to do, but a tad expensive. About 12 to 13K installed.

I had mine done recently and it was a noticeable reduction in vibration. Before I had it done I thought my plane did not vibrate much… it is much less now [:)]

To add to Roger’s post, the actual mount costs about $6800. There are a couple of ways to install the mount but the engine has to be lifted completly off the mount to so so. There is another method where the engine is totally removed which invloved more disconnections and reconnections of things. The “short” way of doing it takes about 18 hours of labor.In my neck of teh woods that is about $1350. So the job can be done for under $8500.

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To add to Roger’s post, the actual mount costs about $6800.


I wish [;)] Thats the old price. At the first of the year Cirrus raised parts prices and the engine mount price went up quite a bit. My mount was $9100.00 + installation. There is also some other factors such as does the plane have a single or dual exhaust - mine is single and I think it is the most expensive part number to buy (of course).

I wish I had done it just a month earlier.

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My mount was $9100.00 + installation.


I honestly can’t see how they get away with charging that much for an engine mount. If it was made of gold, I could understand. Either way, thats taking advantage of the very people that made Cirrus what it is today.

I think its things like this that give many people doubts about trusting Cirrus and dropping a hundred grand deposit on a jet that they hardly know anything about.

It certainly does sound expensive for what is, basically, welded tubular steel.

Especially considering that for similar money you could go out and buy something like this:

Apples and oranges, obviously, but still, which one has more design/material/labor involved?

I think its things like this that give many people doubts about trusting Cirrus and dropping a hundred grand deposit on a jet that they hardly know anything about.<<

Well…it’s an airplane manufacturer! I bought a new Pitts with a Lycoming engine, only to be informed two years later that the brand new engine must have the crankshaft replaced…at my expense. If airplane manufacturers operated under the normal rules of commerce…that is, the manufacturer should always bear the costs of its own design defects…well, there probably wouldn’t be any left in business. I have just accepted that if you want to own an airplane, you better be willing to get screwed by somebody…the manufacturers, repairmen, FBO’s, the FAA…cause it will happen over and over and it’s not worth the emotional grief trying to fight it!

Does not look like the Triumph motorcycles that I grew up riding on the back of. My dad had several, one of his buddies had a Triumph shop about 3 blocks from the house. I spent more than a few idle hours there. He son grew up to be a GP champion, John Kocinski. John is two years younger than me, his sister and I went all through school together.

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I have just accepted that if you want to own an airplane, you better be willing to get screwed by somebody…the manufacturers, repairmen, FBO’s, the FAA…cause it will happen over and over and it’s not worth the emotional grief trying to fight it!


Dave,

I’m not expecting them to supply the mount for free. I do expect them to be reasonable. They are selling these mounts to loyal Cirrus owners. I don’t think anyone can convince me that at $9100. they are not taking advantage of US.

I agree its not worth getting aggravated or emotional. At the same time its hard to keep bending over!

In reply to:


I have just accepted that if you want to own an airplane, you better be willing to get screwed by somebody…the manufacturers, repairmen, FBO’s, the FAA…cause it will happen over and over and it’s not worth the emotional grief trying to fight it!


and

In reply to:


I’m not expecting them to supply the mount for free. I do expect them to be reasonable. They are selling these mounts to loyal Cirrus owners. I don’t think anyone can convince me that at $9100. they are not taking advantage of US.


I see your points. It’s disgusting how the airplane manufacturers are gouging the customers to line their pockets. Oh, wait a minute, most of the airplane manufacturers are broke, or nearly so!

You are right of course, but what is the solution? Would we rather have ridiculously high-priced parts, or no parts at all? Or do you have thoughts about how, in the harsh realities of today’s marketplace, an aircraft company could provide reasonably priced parts and stay in business? Problems look so easy when you only look at half of the equation.

Jim Knollenberg SR22 1904 N716DG

In reply to:


andIn reply to:
I’m not expecting them to supply the mount for free. I do expect them to be reasonable. They are selling these mounts to loyal Cirrus owners. I don’t think anyone can convince me that at $9100. they are not taking advantage of US.
I see your points. It’s disgusting how the airplane manufacturers are gouging the customers to line their pockets. Oh, wait a minute, most of the airplane manufacturers are broke, or nearly so!
You are right of course, but what is the solution? Would we rather have ridiculously high-priced parts, or no parts at all? Or do you have thoughts about how, in the harsh realities of today’s marketplace, an aircraft company could provide reasonably priced parts and stay in business? Problems look so easy when you only look at half of the equation.
Jim Knollenberg SR22 1904 N716DG


Well, as the guy that paid 9100 bucks let me chime in, I suppose that price bought me that right [;)]. There are two edges to every sword. On the cost side:

These are certified parts. They also had to engineer a 6 point mount for a single exhaust plane that was out of production so they had to retrofit it and CLEARLY Cirrus did not have to do that. I am glad they did that, the volume was not there to justify it or allocate it either but they did it anyway for the customer. Do not underestimate the costs added to certified parts nor that of engineering and with few units to recover the large NRE costs, the per unit cost goes up at a frightening rate. As someone building a homebuilt, the price delta between certified or not is incredible. BTW, I think some of the not certified stuff is better than certified products because the manufacturer is free to evolve it without the FAA paper chase.

OTOH, I always thought the $6500 was too much. I had committed to myself to do it and then I found about the price increase. So I suppose I am more "frustrated by the price increase than anything else.

And clearly all manufacturers charge too much for parts. Try to build the motorcycle fasteddie posted out of parts… it will be a 100,000 dollar bike.

Clearly if Cirrus raises prices high enough they can discourage Cirrus ownership. I would like to see them not do that.

In the meantime, I am happy with the 6 point mount. I should have done it when it was “cheap”.

In reply to:


Christian,
Coming from a 4-cyl Grumman Tiger, the 6-cyl Cirrus always felt pretty smooth to me.
I flew Trip’s dad’s GTS round-trip to M3. It felt moderately smoother than my plane, but certainly not “orders-of-magnitude” smoother. I must admit that when I again jumped into my plane it did feel a bit “coarser” than I had remembered it.


I too transitioned to the Cirrus from a Tiger. And I never thought mine was a shaker. And compared to the 4 cyl lyc 6CD seemed smooth to me.

But I flew too many newer 6 point planes and they were smoother than mine. In the end I did it mainly because someday I will sell it (no time soon) and most buyers seem to make that a negotiation point. If I am going to pay for a 6 point - I might as well get to use it [:)]

Now that I have it, it is noticeably smoother. What you feel is far “finer” and less intense. Mainly you only feel a fine, light vibration in the rudder pedals and you feel almost nothing in the airframe. Since we did not put data collection equipment in pre and post I can only give a seat of the pants answer. My uncalibrated butt tells me it is 10% of what it was before. And it is smoother in all realms, at idle all the way to cruise.

I flew with Rock on tuesday. His is a newer 6 point Platinum engine airplane. Mine is just as smooth as his is now. So while mine never shoke much and I never thought it a problem, it is less now and frankly I am glad I did it.