What are the common problems with the SR22?

I plunked down a deposit on one of the December SR22Bs with ice protection a couple weeks back. After reading some of the posts here, I have become a bit concerned.

What are the common problems with Cirrus SR22s?

The things I have heard of (and would appreciate some feedback on) are:

  • Vibration.
  • Possible flutter.
  • Training occurs in your own plane during the engine break in period and may cause premature engine wear, oil consumption, etc.
  • Flap clutches that need replacement or adjustment.
  • Ice protection cuts speed and may cause corrosion.
  • Cheap tow bar that slips and damages nose wheel fairing.
  • Torque on some part of the nose wheel needs constant adjustment.
  • Airframe life limited to 4350 hours, Cirrus plans extension, what happens if their plans fall through.
  • Avidyne Datalink Weather was supposed to be available in September, now delayed until Q1 2003, why and how much will it cost to retrofit?

What other issues are there?

Thanks,

–Galvin

My experience is short having had the plane only a month. I have flown Mooneys, Bonanzas, Piper Arrows and other Pier products, and multiple Cessnas. All in all this is the finest airplane I have ever flown.
The new airplanes have no vibration, the issue of flutter was more discussion than reality. I certainly have seen none. Training in ALL planes occurs the same way. If you read this month’s AOPA magazine, there is an article on engine break in after a new engine. The most critical time is the first 2 hours the engine runs. You can debate until the cows come home how many hours it takes to truly “break in” but my oil consumption was fully stable after the first day of training. The training program used a large combination of high power and variable power operations. After doing it, I have had much less concern. Every takeoff is a high power operation and unless you are going SOLELY pattern work, which you will not, the engine will break in fine.
I do not have ice protection. If it robs power, it is 3 knots. The airplane cruises at 170 or better. The three knots is a “spit in the ocean” and will never be noticed. Do not know what you mean by corrosion. The composite is so much more corrosion resistant than metal and is much stronger as well. There is nothing to corrode on this wing.
Flap relays have been fixed. The flap clutch is a rare problem. NOt seen on my plane. The towbar is not the best but will only slip if you improperly use it. ONLY PULL on the towbar, NO PUSHING. Push the body of the plane and STEER ONLY with the towbar.
The nosewheel is a problem for some; certainly no a deal breaker. The airframe lfe issue is more paperwork with the FAA than any real concern. Planes of the past had no requirement fo life limits and are still flying after 50 years.
Datalink will come. Would you rather have a plane that does not have the option at all or add it on in the spring?

All in all, I would be a bit less concerned. All these issues are minor in comaprision to haw much better the plane is than others on the market. Try to get customer service with Cessna or Mooney these days.
you will be happy; relax and enjoy a great airplane.

"The things I have heard of (and would appreciate some feedback on) are:

  • Vibration.
  • Possible flutter.
  • Training occurs in your own plane during the engine break in period and may cause premature engine wear, oil consumption, etc.
  • Flap clutches that need replacement or adjustment.
  • Ice protection cuts speed and may cause corrosion.
  • Cheap tow bar that slips and damages nose wheel fairing.
  • Torque on some part of the nose wheel needs constant adjustment.
  • Airframe life limited to 4350 hours, Cirrus plans extension, what happens if their plans fall through.
  • Avidyne Datalink Weather was supposed to be available in September, now delayed until Q1 2003, why and how much will it cost to retrofit?"

Galvin:

I have about 185 hours on SR22 serial number 144.

Here is my experience regarding your list:

(1) I have not experienced what I would consider a vibration problem. The noise level in flight is substantial and I use Bose Aviation X headsets with great results. I have no feeling of vibration.

(2) I have not experienced flutter. I have read the posts regarding flutter and have not seen anything like that in my aircraft.

(3) This is largely a matter of speculation. It has been observed that the aircraft that are most likely to make it to TBO are those of flight schools. There is also the indication in the Continental Motors Tips On Engine Care along the line of “Don’t baby your engine”. Finally, there is no doubt that training is necessary in this aircraft. I suppose if you could arrange another aircraft to train in that training could be done in that aircraft. I don’t see Cirrus providing you another aircraft to train in.

(4) I have had no problem with flap clutches. As far as I can tell, they are not an unusually frequent maintenance item. They certainly have in some instances required maintenance. Flap relays are another matter. Be sure you get spare flap relays and detailed instructions and an invoice documenting that that relays came from Cirrus should you have a failure away from a Cirrus Service Center.

(5) Ice protection: I don’t think there are many of us out there that would turn down ice protection on our aircraft. You are fortunate to have that option. The speed loss, if any, is minimal. Corrosion, I don’t know, except that most of the wing is composite which should not corrode.

(6) Cheap tow bar: I have never had any problem with the supplied tow bar. You can only pull. You can’t push with the tow bar. Use both hands in attaching to the nosewheel pins. You can get adaptors to extend the pins if you desire.

If you want a better tow bar, contact AeroTow. They make tugs which each have a nosewheel adaptor. They also make a handle that fits the nosewheel adaptor. These two items will serve as a more secure tow bar and also provide the hardware that you will need should you decide to get the tug. The most commonly used tug with the SR22 is the E-200, a 24 volt model that now includes a 3 amp. built in charger. I previously posted photographs of an addition of a ground power socket and ground power cable that can plug into the E-200. I have attached one of those photographs to this post. When I bought my E-200 it was supplied with a commercial 10 amp. 24 volt automatic charger. This is really the minimum size for powering the SR22 on the ground. It is possible you can order it that way from AeroTow. The standard E-200 now has only a 3 amp. built in charger that has no meter. Both the meter and the 10 amp. size are needed for powering the aircraft on the ground.

(7) Torque on some part of the nosewheel: Some have reported nosewheel shimmey. I think many of these may be the result of a too high touchdown speed on the nosewheel. When you start training in the SR22 work very carefully in proper approach speed, leveling barely above the runway, touching the mains at the lowest speed possible and holding off the nose until no more elevator authority is left. I have required no adjustment in 185 hours.

(8) Airframe life: This is largely a regulatory issue. I am not sure what might cause “plans to fall through”. See prior posts for more detail on this.

(9) Avidyne Datalink: I have a deposit for installation of this in my aircraft. I just got an email from the Avionics Manager at the Service Center doing the work that it appears that Cirrus is working on the antenna. I also have a client that is employed at the vendor that makes the antenna for Cirrus and they are working on this new unit. The existing com antenna will be replaced with a new com antenna that also will receive the satellite signal. None of this should concern you provided you are not taking delivery before first quarter 2003. Some others with more information about the factory situation will know more of when they will be in production aircraft. The retrofit cost is going to be very similar to the new installed price. There may also be issues relative to Avidyne, its data carrier, the Avidyne weather computer center, etc. I don’t think with a system as complex as this is that the delay is unreasonable or unexplained. I also believe the September date is an Avidyne date not a Cirrus date. There is always conflict between the marketing folks and the actual hardware, systems, etc. folks that make it work.

I don’t know of any other issues. I just got the settings put in to make the Garmins dim automatically at night. This will eliminate the manual setting on each night flight. I plan to get the resistor installed in the lamp line of the Davtron to bring it’s brightness in line with the other panel instruments. A reasonably priced 2 3/4" backkup horizon would be nice.

In summary, of the 9 points you mention, only 1, the date on the Avidyne Datalink really concerns me. By the time yours comes down the line at DLH I am sure it will have the Avidyne Datalink, and probably the glass primary instruments, assuming you have ordered that. FADEC is another story.

John,

Don’t let buyers remorse set in. As airplanes go the Cirrus is a gem. Mine is a early 22 and a year and half old with just under 200 hours. A few detailed responses where I can add something beyond what has been said:

  1. Vibration problems have been solved by a Service Bulletin. That problem is over, but it was aggravating to some. Mine never vibrated.
  2. “Flutter” was reported by one person, bet its either misnamed or a isolated problem. Never heard the outcome, but real flutter is very serious.
  3. Trained in mine, oil burn is very low.
  4. Never have had a flap problem. Suspect there is something to the clutch issue though. I keep the speed down when I deploy them. 119 may be first flaps, but nothing says you have to do it that high and the difference in drag is greatly lessened you you do it slower.
  5. Have not had shimmey in the nose wheel ever. I did own a Tiger before and they have exactly the same gear. And I did get shimmy in that a couple of times. I learned how to deal with it in that plane. Tension settings are critically important. But pilot technique to take it easy on it is frankly the best cure. Set it down slow and soft. No drift. I set mine above the target spec, because they tend to back off a couple of lbs of sidepull almost immediately. That insures I am flying at or near the top of the spec for tightness after things settle in. FYI, I have adjusted it once outside of annual. Also how you react to it has some bearing. Many people stomp the brakes to slow down when it happens. That only makes it worse. If you have enough speed, lift the nose and then set it back down. Just taking weight off it helps.

Galvin, excellent job of research on this forum. I’ve been noodling on a FAQ for COPA and your list is a great summary.

From my perspective, your “concern” is similar to mine when I took delivery of my SR22 last Christmas. At that time, I was an avid reader (more like glutton) of the COPA forums because I had never owned a plane before. In fact, the closest I had gotten to maintenance log books was my FAA oral exam for a private pilot’s licence a few days before I went to Duluth! Amazing to realize what you “experienced” folks had to go through that I knew nothing about – before!

What I learned from this forum gave me an astonishingly deep level of understanding of the Cirrus plane, its systems, its quirks and failure modes, and the people and resources to ask and understand about them. I learned a lot. If I heard a squeak, I now knew 2 or 3 things to ask about. My naive owner/pilot conversations with service folks were much more informative than I ever imagined. Even at the factory during acceptance. We quickly got passed the fluff and down the real stuff. Felt good.

Most of the previous posts have said things that are similar to my experience after 470 hours:

  • Vibration cured with nose wheel adjustments and vibration kit SB
  • Flutter not observed (as best I understand what it would look like)
  • Engine break-in was easily accommodated during my extended 4-day training & ferrying
  • Flaps never a problem (touch composite, eh?)
  • TKS dunno
  • Tow bar used with 2 hands and cautions to line guys, no scratches
  • Nose wheel retorqued once, shimmy twice in about 250 landings
  • Airframe life dunno, convinced not to worry
  • Avidyne datalink, sorry still have ARNAV

Still concerned? Perhaps talk with one of the former Cirrus instructors about acceptance tips – or even hire them for that purpose.

Welcome to one of the most informative and hyperactive web discussion groups among a world-wide community of owners & pilots! Count the days, plan the check lists, ask questions, be prepared – but I’ll be that you will be surprised at the experience of picking up that plane. Good luck!

And have a great Cirrus day!

Cheers
Rick

p.s. Where is Woor anyway? I bought his position and haven’t heard from or about him much since.

John,

I now have over 325 hrs on my 22 and have “finally” gotten through the teething stage…I have had my share of issues that have caused me to question my sanity but never my decision. I posted this missive a while ago and believe in it all the more 200+ hrs later…

I picked up 344CD ('22) 30 days ago and did my acceptance flite in a blizzard with Luke Lyson, Cirrus Pilot and all around good egg, in hard IMC. Flew it home that nite to do the training with Luke over the next 3 days…Over the past week my squawk list is: Ldg Light voltage reg(xwind nite ldgs are now a “zen-like experience”), bad Flash card on the Avidyne, no terrain features, cracked oil cooler, and a mild vibration…2 days with Mazzante’s most excellent crew at LNS will do the trick, but the bottom line is this: My '22 has allowed me to work 180 road miles from my home get there in 25 minutes…It has enhanced my life and I look at it’s growth issues differently than most…Alan and Dale took a huge risk to bring these planes to market…The easiest spot to own is the one that requires no change, no “leaps of faith”…I knew when I sent my check that I was back in 1982 with IBM…It worked out then and it will work out now…The problems we face as the fleet grows will benefit those that follow and at the same time allow us to get to know our bird’s all the more…Funny, I never think of my squawks as I am climbing out at 2000 fpm…

John: For the most part, I agree with Brian and Mike; but I’m not sure that what you call ‘SR22 problems’ is a particularly accurate representation of the issues. My thought on each follow:

  • Vibration. Yes, I do have more than I would like. There are remain two fairly easy, Cirrus recommended fixes, which I have yet to try. The important point is that I have not heard of any new planes with this problem.

  • Possible flutter. I think this is the vibration issue. I have not heard of any flutter, which if true, would be a very serious problem.

  • Training occurs in your own plane during the engine break in period and may cause premature engine wear, oil consumption, etc. Is this different from any other new airplane? What do you think happened on every new airplane, or even that used one you bought last? An hour or two of lower power settings during break-in has not been determined to be a problem.

  • Flap clutches that need replacement or adjustment. I have never experienced any flap relay clutch or other problem. There have been some relay issues, which seem related to the part, or its manufacturer.

  • Ice protection cuts speed and may cause corrosion. If this is true, it is certainly not a problem but a fact or specification. It is very common for additional options which affect the exterior of the airflow to create drag and decrease performance. The SR22 is one of the few new airplanes that I have ever seen that actually performs as well as or better than the ‘marketing’ specifications. As for the corrosion, the only difference between the SR22 w/TKS and any other airplane is that the SR22 has less metal to corrode. I would suspect that if the fluid was highly corrosive, it would not be able to receive a TSO/STC.

  • Cheap tow bar that slips and damages nose wheel fairing. Hey, the towbar is basically a Cessna towbar. The issue is a lack of care exercised by FBO/Line staff. My 172’s nose wheel fairing got scratched all the time, but it just was a one color affair, which was easy to touch up. ‘Damage’ is limited to cosmetic issues, not real damage to the part.

  • Torque on some part of the nose wheel needs constant adjustment. Never had a problem, or requested the Service Center to adjust.

  • Airframe life limited to 4350 hours, Cirrus plans extension, what happens if their plans fall through. Again, this is very common for almost all new aircraft to seek and receive airframe life extensions. By all expectations, composite airframes should age far better than metal ones.

  • Avidyne Datalink Weather was supposed to be available in September, now delayed until Q1 2003, why and how much will it cost to retrofit? Yup, it like many other things in aviation, failed to meet it’s announced deadlines.

John, what I’m trying to say that while $350,000 is a lot of money to drop and for that amount you want a perfect airplane, I think many of your concerns are more fear, than realistic. It seems that you have compiled a fairly exhaustive list of every bug or complaint and considered them as potential problems. Nothing as complicated as an aircraft is ever perfect. The biggest issues are how easy is it to get fixed, how responsive is the company to warranty claims, and are the issues resolvable. Cirrus is pretty good in these regards.

My $0.02

Marty SR22 s/n 0017 300 hours

Just picked up SR22 10 days ago. Its a joy to fly given great avionics, seating comfort and speed. Have not trien the shute yet . The big continental is very smooth on the ground but I have a considerable, high frequency vibration in cruise flight on the front floor, rudders and dash. I guess the new exost did not take care of this problem.
I am scheduled for the sevice center to look into it.
Avidyne software locks up on and off including engine/ fuel flow module. Garmins are very bright at night on auto setting. I have no nose wheel shimmy or any flap problems. Overall I am very happy with the plane but vibration issue MUST be solved. If not I will have to part with the plane as my feet go numb after 20 minutes in cruise flight.
Rafal.
BTW, anyone with suggestions to fix the problem? I looked over the older suggestions.

We picked up our SR22 a week ago, Thursday… We notice some vibration on the checkout ride, but not really significant… Following four days of flight instruction (some of the hours of those days spent waiting for things to be fixed, we flew home… The vibration became increasingly noticible,and somewhat uncomfortable. We called the service center LNS today and spoke to Jim the head mechanic. We were told the twin exhuausts were supposed to fix the problem…it hasn’t. We are now told doing a Dynamic prop tuning might be the answer…and you guessed it Cirrus does not cover it under warrenty ($200.00 or more) My concern above the uncomfortable ride is how this vibration will effect the avionics and other sensitive mechanical do dads over time. Has anyone had a vibration problem and had it solved?? Need help and guidence…Love the plane… hate the shaking…

Marty (N5205X)

I have had the wing flutter on several planes. I would call it more of a wobble than a flutter meaning it is a steady rocking back and forth. The movement isn’t large so the plane is flyable with it. It is just that you can see slight movement back and forth of the wings.

On the one hand I consider the many things that seem to go wrong annoying. Then again, I expect perfection and I don’t think the Cirrus is any worse than other planes. Cirrus has been making modifications. If you jump directly form a year old plane to a new one you will notice small differences. Issues I have personally dealt with are:

ALT 1 failure (at night. Got my attention.)
Bad manifolfd pressure sending unit
Intermitten manifold pressure gauge
Bad tach
Mic input from co-pilot headset not transmitting. Hand mic ok.
No audio feedback into headset when transmitting
broken trim pieces
bad Sandel
bad autopilot servo - would hunt on autopilot
fuel gauge problem when less than 15 gallons (reading varied a lot depending on whether tank was selected or not)
ring on outside door handle rotates when it shouldn’t. Just learn how to pry it back into place so the handle will fold flush

Now this was not all on one plane but over several so it sounds worse than it was. Taking into account the increased complexity of the plane I don’t find it any less reliable than the Cessnas I fly. I do think aircraft manufacturers are in for a rude awakening should Honda decide to make a plane. Cirrus may be worried about this too since I heard they hired an ex Toyota person to work the quality issue.

John,

I agree with the comments that Stephen and Brian have made; and I’d add this…

I had many of the same doubts and concerns when I was reading this forum (actually, it’s predecessor) prior to taking delivery of my SR20. It sure seemed as though there were a LOT of problems out there. My post-delivery experience has been very good. Sure, I’ve had some issues – some were similar to those I’d read about, and some were my “privilege” to pioneer. Goes with the territory. It took me a year, more or less, to get my airplane to be essentially squawk-free. In general terms, Cirrus was great about taking care of me.

A year to clear the squawk list? That’s not as scary as it sounds. For me, squawks include real “nits”, like a twist in a seatbelt or missing set screw in a knob. Little stuff… just want my airplane to be perfect. Many of the things appeared on the list after 8 or 10 months only because they were so small, I hadn’t noticed them before.

The real deal is that by the nature of airplanes and people, MOST of the problems that are experienced get discussed on these forums – not too many people post “It’s 6 o’clock and all’s well”.

I can offer one additional perspective: In my role of heading up our Technical Liason operation, I get a lot of comments that give me a pretty good sense of the overall quality of new airplanes (20s and 22s) coming off the line, as well as how well Cirrus and many of the Service Centers are doing. I’d say that while airplane quality has “local” ups and downs, it has improved a great deal over the past 18 months, with far fewer delivery issues being reported to me. [There have been some specific exceptions – like the Tyco relay issue, which had Cirrus stumped for a while, but they eventually figured it out].

On the other hand, Cirrus has slipped some in terms of satisfaction being achieved with Customer Service; this is partly a result of the ever-growing number of airplanes in the field. COPA and Cirrus have been working together on this – the good news is that Cirrus really seems to listen, and to work toward improving things that we tell them are slipping.

Everything’s relative… they still get high marks compared with my own past personal experiences with e.g. Cessna and Piper.

If you bear all this in mind, and know that you’re getting an airplane, not a car (different expectation entirely), you’ll probably be well satisfied.

  • Mike.

As usual, the eloquent Mike R (and others) have said it better than I could have, but also as usual, I can’t resist adding another comment:

Imagine that you are a native of some other country, planning a vacation in the USA. In preparation for your trip, you start reading some American newspapers everyday. After a week, you are starting to wonder if you want to visit this land of tornadoes, snipers, terrorists and jackbooted federal thugs. If this caused you to cancel your vacation in “Beautiful Country” as it’s called in Chinese, you would be missing out.

That’s because good news is no news. Posts about problems are more interesting than “another perfect, speedy, comfortable, easy flight in my SR2X today.” With almost 450 hours on my SR22, almost every flight has been like that.

-Mike

Mike,
knowledge take up here from all kind members is extreme for me;
in additon, reading post like you write, complete my bent of
to appreciate all the good things of life!

Thank!

In reply to:


Where is Woor anyway? I bought his position and haven’t heard from or about him much since.


Rick,

Once in a while I trade emails with him… can’t entice him back on the forums, though. Perhaps now that he’s no longer an owner-to-be, the allure is gone.

Mike.

Rafal: You definitely have a problem with the vibration. I had the SB done even though I wasn’t experiencing vibration just because I wanted it done in the warranty period. Some have reported that vibration shows up later because of the engine sagging in the mounts, etc.

In reply to:


Overall I am very happy with the plane but vibration issue MUST be solved. If not I will have to part with the plane as my feet go numb after 20 minutes in cruise flight.


You are among the first to report such a bad case of vibration that induces numbness. There are many more postings on the Member forum about vibration issues – unabashed plug to join COPA.

Talk with Cirrus customer service and ask them to suggest ways to measure the kinds of vibration that your plane is experiencing. Hopefully, they can tell a nearby service center what to look for in a flight test.

Since your plane is a more recent serial number, it has a different exhaust design and several other vibration-damping modifications from mine – and most of the SR22 fleet prior to summer 2002.

Cheers
Rick

Thanks to all I have been thinking of upgrading.I will now wait untill vibrations are solved untill then I will fly the slower but smother sr20 I love . From Don

In reply to:


My concern above the uncomfortable ride is how this vibration will effect the avionics and other sensitive mechanical do dads over time. Has anyone had a vibration problem and had it solved??


I had sufficient vibration during the first 75 hours that I had the SR22 vibration kit installed and observed a substantial reduction. No observable effect on other components, although the AI failed during instrument training (progressive deterioration really affected my attitude flying!).

Since your plane is new and with a different exhaust design, we all expected you to report no more vibration issues. Good luck on getting them addressed.

Also, there is considerably more discussion about such issues on the Members Forum – unabashed plug to join COPA!

Cheers
Rick

Got mine 11/8/02. No vibrations noted. Serial number 374.

I would suggest this is an anomaly and Cirrus should look at it. I have NO vibration whatsoever. This sounds like more the exception than the rule.