Does anyone know if this is legal. To have all 4 seats filled with one extra 3 year old in back seat on someones lap with a turbulance harness on. Plane will be within weight and balance. Is there a reg that says you can not do this. I hope I can. Or better yet has anyone done this in a SR22. Thanks from Don
In reply to:
Does anyone know if this is legal. To have all 4 seats filled with one extra 3 year old in back seat on someones lap with a turbulance harness on.
FAR 91.205 b (13) would indicate no. The child must be in an approved seat belt with a metal to metal latch if he is 2 years or older.
Last post is correct. You can not have a 3 year old plus 4 adults. You could carry a lap baby under 2 years old.
In reply to:
Does anyone know if this is legal. To have all 4 seats filled with one extra 3 year old in back seat on someones lap with a turbulance harness on. Plane will be within weight and balance. Is there a reg that says you can not do this.
In the course of selling N84MR, a prospective buyer asked this question, and I went to AOPA’s legal service for the answer. They informed me that they are now advising members that this IS permissable, in terms of the final rule and opinion you can read here.
The text begins as follows:
As long as approved safety belts are carried aboard the aircraft for all occupants and the structural strength requirements for the seats are not exceeded, the seating of two persons whose combined weight does not exceed 170 pounds under one safety belt does not violate the regulations for an operation under Part 91.
Source of Interpretation: Letter to Assistant Chief Counsel, AEA-7, from Donald P. Byrne, Acting Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations and Enforcement Division, AGC-200, dated June 5, 1990.
Of course, I’m simply passing on what AOPA told me.
I am familiar with the legal interpretation that was posted by Mike. First, Legal Counsel opinions are not regulations. Any FAA inspector that sees 5 people get out of a Cirrus may decide to take action.
Would be very careful with this for three reasons. First, is safety of your passengers. The only way I could see two persons in one seat under one belt is to “lap hold” the child and place the belt around both. If there was an accident with forward momentum, the child would be crushed by the weight of the person behind the child. I’m sure Roger could construct some representative numbers on how much force this is.
Also, the belts in the Cirrus may not be representative of the belts that were available during the time the legal opinion was written.
Finally, would an insurance company pay out a claim if the child or adult was hurt or fatally wounded in an accident? They may deny the claim.
Just some thoughts.
No, it is not legal. The POH restricts operation to four people on board. So the whole FAA thing about allowing a sub-2-year-old on a lap doesn’t apply. It is a restriction on use of the aircraft, just like flight into known icing.
Check the top page on your insurance policy. Mine specifies the maximun number of passengers. If you exceed that and have an accident, I would not be surprised if they took the position that the policy is not in force for that flight.
All my ladys are lite weight and would easly be unnder groose with 70 gal of fuel for somw 1.5 hour flights to san and la Don
In reply to:
The POH restricts operation to four people on board. So the whole FAA thing about allowing a sub-2-year-old on a lap doesn’t apply.
You’re quite correct. I hadn’t even thought about that - the POH trumps everything else.
Please change the personal info under your picture! You do have a new plane don’t you and it has been, how many hours!
Mike even needs to change the picture, since it has those funny round dials and gizmos instead of the PFD!
Richard’s comment is now (finally) taken care of.
New photo will have to wait until, well, until I have a new photo!