We are looking to buy a SR22 G3 normally aspirated. We are a club of 3 guys who fly. Looks like the config of airplane we will buy will only have a useful load of around 1020 lbs. I fly with my family on 3/4 of my flights and we need a useful load of 1100. Most sales guys tell me that I can easily overload the plane by 100 lbs on the G3 without a problem. I live in flat land and don’t fly mountains or high density altitude. Any opinion from current SR22 owners of how this plane handles overloaded and if this is a good idea? I realize it is not technically “legal” but looking for practical advise.
Unfortunately I believe I can speak for everyone here that nobody in their right mind would give advice to load an aircraft over its posted limits. Those are hard limits in my book.
Two thoughts. First - consider joining COPA! The guest discussion forum is very limited, and you’re missing out on countless posts, some of which have to do with your very question.
Second - if you go over gross, you’re a test pilot. There’s lots of things to consider (not an exhaustive list):
- Your runway distance for both takeoff and landing will increase
- Your climb performance will be reduced
- Your stall speeds will go up
- The airplane’s ability to deal with structural loads is reduced. Say, for example, you hit a nasty gust of turbulence
- The parachute is designed to hold a maximum weight . What happens if you have an engine failure and you’re overweight?
The problem is - you as a pilot don’t know how much “fudge” you have in those numbers. And, even if you can demonstrate that you can do an overweight flight one day, it might not apply the next day (hotter temps, bumpier day). Or you might even start causing structural issues that you can’t see, until one day, they fail on you.
I’m assuming you’re a relatively new pilot, and it’s absolutely great you’re asking these questions. Please don’t take any of the replies here as an attack on you personally, we are all learning. You have a huge head start on safety by proactively asking experienced pilots questions like this!
Oh and on a practical note, look at an older SR22 G1. They have 1100+ useful loads. You give up things like TKS and AC, but can legally and safely carry your full load!
Yup, Like Christopher says….
What is your need for 1100# based on? Passengers and full fuel, or a specific mission/range you have in mind?
In the SR22 NA you can flight plan for 13.5gph lop and 170ktas +/-5 in cruise.
When I bought my 22 I thought I’d be burning around 17.5 and gained some payload when realized I’d be burning less per hour.
Maybe that helps with your numbers, but as Christopher said, please don’t fly over gross.
Another consideration is that deliberately flying over gross might invalidate your insurance.
Don’t even think about it. No, the G3 does not have the structural upgrades that the G5 has.
Find a different sales guy.
Fuel to the tabs. Gain some useful load. Land for gas after two or so hours.
I am having a difficult time believing this question is actually being asked and discussed. MGW means something and should not be exceeded. That is all you need to know about ANY airplane.
This is a terrible idea - and is not legal. Several others have been much more eloquent (Mike’s response is right on point with specifics)… My answer is very simple - don’t do it, hard stop.
Anyone advocating it’s okay to do is not looking out for the safety and best interest of you and your family. There’s no flight operations worth flying overweight and potentially killing everyone on board to conduct.
I hope the responses to this thread give you pause and makes you strongly re-consider potentially flying such flights. Stay legal, stay safe and get some good instruction from a local CSIP to learn about the effects of weight and balance on any airplane.
I have had a couple people over the years tell me they do this regularly, each with their own justification for why it’s ok. It’s not.
The most dangerous part of doing things like this is that you are mentally turning “limitations” into “suggestions.” Apply that same type of thinking to things like IFR minimums or fuel loads and you’re gonna have a bad time.
Which “sales guys” are actually advocating this? Name them, please and what company they are representing. The GA community as a whole, and the Cirrus family specifically, don’t need their kind of people selling this kind of dangerous attitude to anyone, ever.
Or is this more “a guy in a bar told me he had a friend who told him…” kind of thing?
Nonetheless, don’t do it. People have died doing it and you don’t want to risk the lives of your loved ones and your own trying it.
3400#’s means 3400#’s. Sorry to sound so absolute about this, but it’s all part of being as safe as possible; something we all value.
It’s not absolute by any means. Do you really think a plane at 3400 vs 3410 would be any different? What about 3420?
Don’t expect the POH numbers to work. You’ll need longer runway , experience lower climb rates and have less margin for other things like structural damage in rough air.
I would dare say the vast majority of guys on here have flown over gross either knowingly or on accident.
Personally I try to not fly within 10% of gross as I’m ultra conservative and live in the mountains with DA over 8000 feet regularly.
3400 gross in an approximated rough guess used for certification. Why do you think it’s a round number? Did 3427 not meet the requirements?
This is one of those topics guys get their panties in a wad over so don’t expect Many answers outside of never fly a lb over gross etc.
Which is fine I get why they say it. But personally I don’t think flying a few lbs over gross substantially increases your risk under most conditions.
Put it this way. I would rather fly 100lbs over gross in the flat lands near sea level on a cool morning than take off from my home airport 100 lbs under gross in the summer wirh a 9000 foot density altitude. One is technically ok the other isn’t.
I suggest that a reading of this article would be helpful. There are numerous resources referencing the Normalization of Deviance, pick any of them for some eye-opening examples.
My first thought reading the initial post was that COPA was being trolled.
Jim- I don’t fly a pound over gross knowingly, but I like your post and I think it makes sense. Clearly the 3400 lbs is a line drawn by someone in the sand, and if you step over it, the plane will still fly. As you said, it’s situation dependent, nuanced by environmental conditions, and somewhat arbitrary. It’s meant to maintain acceptable margins to safety. What I don’t like is knowingly and repeatedly flouting the regs or the POH. That’s a slippery slope. I sweat a lot when I fly, and being over gross is something I don’t want to sweat about.
I don’t know the Part 23 standards but was involved a bit with LSA standards. In these standards, there are engineering tolerances typically between +/- 1-5% depending on the test. I’d assume these exist in Part 23. So, sure the plane isn’t going to fall out of the sky at 3410 but I’m not going to try and find out where the line is.
The problem with finding out where the line is is how you find out.
This happened a few years ago in the UK.
@Duane_Barkman Please spend some time with a CSIP before you take your family flying in a Cirrus. Hopefully they can disabuse you of the notion that aircraft limitations are ‘advisory’ only.
So how do planes in Alaska manage? Are there any sr’s doing 135 ops there that fly with the 15% increase? I know nothing of this rule other than a brief article I read so I may be completely incorrect as to my understanding of the matter.
You tend to worry more about CG than weight at gross. She may fly safe a few pounds over but she ain’t pleasant out of CG