Insurance.
Get ready boys and girls just got my quote from USAIG and yes they had my other plane no clams. They said that the two accidents SR-22 planes they were both insured by them. My quote went from $3,700 to $5,900 I am a commercial multi instrument rated.They seem to be the lowest out their compaired to the others. I said what about lower time people and he said that they problem won’t get insurance. Those already insured next time around get ready to take a hit. The Insurance Co. went to Cirrus and was not impressed with the chute because the plane would be totaled when used." Hay! let’s keep the shiny side UP out their." Two down with like two hundred plus out their doesn’t look to good to the insurance people.
Richard SR-22
You are referring to the two accidents each involving an SR20 and an SR22, correct? As far as I know, there weren’t two SR22’s totaled. If the SR22 premiums are up, the SR20 premiums might be going up too.
Insurance.
Get ready boys and girls just got my quote from USAIG and yes they had my other plane no clams. They said that the two accidents SR-22 planes they were both insured by them. My quote went from $3,700 to $5,900 I am a commercial multi instrument rated.They seem to be the lowest out their compaired to the others. I said what about lower time people and he said that they problem won’t get insurance. Those already insured next time around get ready to take a hit. The Insurance Co. went to Cirrus and was not impressed with the chute because the plane would be totaled when used." Hay! let’s keep the shiny side UP out their." Two down with like two hundred plus out their doesn’t look to good to the insurance people.
Richard SR-22
Get ready boys and girls just got my quote from USAIG and yes they had my other plane no clams. They said that the two accidents SR-22 planes they were both insured by them. My quote went from $3,700 to $5,900 I am a commercial multi instrument rated.They seem to be the lowest out their compaired to the others. I said what about lower time people and he said that they problem won’t get insurance. Those already insured next time around get ready to take a hit. The Insurance Co. went to Cirrus and was not impressed with the chute because the plane would be totaled when used." Hay! let’s keep the shiny side UP out their." Two down with like two hundred plus out their doesn’t look to good to the insurance people.
Richard SR-22
Richard raises a good and vexing point. The GA insurance climate has become very consumer-unfriendly and less competitive in the past year and a half. I have written about my own experience here before: >50% premium increase for lesser coverage, and this for a 1000+ hr, IFR pilot with no accidents or incidents, in a Cessna 182 (260se) no less. I was able to get “excess liability” insurance but it required a $1M smooth base policy, and I had to shop around for the latter. Most insurance offered nowadays is only $1M with $100K sublimits, which is pretty much like carrying no insurance at all.
IMHO priorities #1 and #2 for the embryonic Cirrus Owners’ and Pilots’ Association should be a type-specific training program for pilots as the American Yankee Association has done for Grummans, and securing some kind of group insurance for Cirrus owners if at all possible.
It is in all of our interest for Cirrus pilots to be careful to the max. Yes, this is the safest single-engine plane ever made, but insurance companies look at the claims record vs. fleet size in determining rates and coverage, and for an as yet small fleet like SR2X, a few incidents of bad luck can have an appalling effect on the rates the rest of us have to pay. Or in the current situation it could indeed mean that low time pilots might NOT be able to get coverage. In the present insurance market with so little competition, it is unlikely any underwriter will be willing to take the long view that statistucally Cirrus planes WILL be a better risk overall than others. Thus each claim involving a SR2X has a huge significance in these early days for Cirrus owners as well as the company itself. Please let’s all be careful out there!
The insurance companies, of all people, have enough statisticians to know that their sample size is insufficient as a predictor. Having said that, they’ve made a couple of significant payouts (particularly in the Kohler incident) and the underwriters are certainly not happy.
The crash in Arizona could have been in any airplane, but if they were travelling at 110 knots instead of 150, perhaps they would have had an extra second or two to alter the flight path. I know of at least one landing incident involving damage in addition to the totalled 22 of last week as well, which would raise their actuarial eyebrows to be sure.
Perhaps there is something unique about the combination of the plane and the profile of the typical owner (or the training thereof) that leads to more frequent insurance claims? I get the feeling that a large number of the SR2x owners (particularly the 20) are 200 hour pilots who have spent almost all of their time flying 172s. The landing characteristics of the Cirri make up the single biggest difference between the two (in terms of how they fly). Perhaps more focused training is necessary about the differences, and about the consequences of reverting to 172 habits.
Speed is also an issue, though we tend to think of it in terms of slowing down to get into the pattern, or as time compression when flying instrument approaches. Driving home the message that it is a really good idea to slow down if you’re MVFR (and the plane will happily fly as slowly as a 172) would be a good thing. Also a graphic demonstration of how much more space (and bank angle) it takes to make a standard rate turn at 150 knots versus 110.
Hopefully Cirrus and Wings Aloft are thinking along the same lines.
You know, the “human factors” aspect of being part of a new product’s introduction may end up being more of a challenge for the first 1000 or so Cirrus purchasers than the mechanical aspects of this new plane. Ie, we’re going to pay more for insurance.
The first several hundred customers of any new product are de facto beta testers, and much of that is going on with the Cirrus hardware right now. Glare shield, Arnav-yes-or-no, transponder placement, gross weight, and so on. One assumes that by the time the 1000th production Cirrus rolls off the line, a lot of these issues will have been refined and fine-tuned.
The bigger complication for early customers may be what we’re witnessing here. I am slow to criticize low-time pilots, being one myself. I had 375 hours/IFR when I got the plane (350 of it in 172s, the rest in 182s, seaplanes, etc), and just over 500 hours now. But precisely because this plane is designed to BROADEN the appeal of general aviation, it will on average attract more people early in the flying process (like me) than, say, the latest Mooney will. So we’ll see how the balance between (a) an intrinsically safer plane and (b) overall less experienced pilots works out in insurance and accident rates.
I was just issued a policy on my soon to be SR22 just before the most recent accident. I must say I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw the policy in the mail. I paid $4,750 and I am 800 hrs., IFR. (I do have 125 of those hours in an SR20 - accident free). XL Specialty is the company and Chuck Wenk was the broker - 847-433-8370.
It will be bad news if someone can not get insurance but when we are comparing premiums don’t compare apples & oranges. I insured my hull for $320,000 - that cost $4,000. When comparing premiums remember to look at the value of the planes. Don’t compare a $100,000 172 with a $200,000 to $300,000 SR20/SR22. The One Million liability (not flat) cost me $750. That means the insurance company is betting 1,333 to 1 that I will not hurt anyone in the next year. I thought that was a great sign of confidence on their part. ( The odds are probably even higher because they want to make a profit).
But when it comes to the hull there are so many ways they can lose $4,000. If one Garmin 430 is stolen they are in the hole. So for a new airplane with no claims experience I felt it was a fair deal. I have heard that Malibu and Meridian owners are having a hard time just getting insurance.
Insurance.
Get ready boys and girls just got my quote from USAIG and yes they had my other plane no clams. They said that the two accidents SR-22 planes they were both insured by them. My quote went from $3,700 to $5,900 I am a commercial multi instrument rated.They seem to be the lowest out their compaired to the others. I said what about lower time people and he said that they problem won’t get insurance. Those already insured next time around get ready to take a hit. The Insurance Co. went to Cirrus and was not impressed with the chute because the plane would be totaled when used." Hay! let’s keep the shiny side UP out their." Two down with like two hundred plus out their doesn’t look to good to the insurance people.
Richard SR-22
Couldn’t agree more. A good model is the American Bonanza Society’s BPPP classes (Bonanza Pilot Proficiency Program).
Get ready boys and girls just got my quote from USAIG and yes they had my other plane no clams. They said that the two accidents SR-22 planes they were both insured by them. My quote went from $3,700 to $5,900 I am a commercial multi instrument rated.They seem to be the lowest out their compaired to the others. I said what about lower time people and he said that they problem won’t get insurance. Those already insured next time around get ready to take a hit. The Insurance Co. went to Cirrus and was not impressed with the chute because the plane would be totaled when used." Hay! let’s keep the shiny side UP out their." Two down with like two hundred plus out their doesn’t look to good to the insurance people.
Richard SR-22
Richard raises a good and vexing point. The GA insurance climate has become very consumer-unfriendly and less competitive in the past year and a half. I have written about my own experience here before: >50% premium increase for lesser coverage, and this for a 1000+ hr, IFR pilot with no accidents or incidents, in a Cessna 182 (260se) no less. I was able to get “excess liability” insurance but it required a $1M smooth base policy, and I had to shop around for the latter. Most insurance offered nowadays is only $1M with $100K sublimits, which is pretty much like carrying no insurance at all.
IMHO priorities #1 and #2 for the embryonic Cirrus Owners’ and Pilots’ Association should be a type-specific training program for pilots as the American Yankee Association has done for Grummans, and securing some kind of group insurance for Cirrus owners if at all possible.
It is in all of our interest for Cirrus pilots to be careful to the max. Yes, this is the safest single-engine plane ever made, but insurance companies look at the claims record vs. fleet size in determining rates and coverage, and for an as yet small fleet like SR2X, a few incidents of bad luck can have an appalling effect on the rates the rest of us have to pay. Or in the current situation it could indeed mean that low time pilots might NOT be able to get coverage. In the present insurance market with so little competition, it is unlikely any underwriter will be willing to take the long view that statistucally Cirrus planes WILL be a better risk overall than others. Thus each claim involving a SR2X has a huge significance in these early days for Cirrus owners as well as the company itself. Please let’s all be careful out there!
The insurance companies, of all people, have enough statisticians to know that their sample size is insufficient as a predictor. Having said that, they’ve made a couple of significant payouts (particularly in the Kohler incident) and the underwriters are certainly not happy.
The crash in Arizona could have been in any airplane, but if they were travelling at 110 knots instead of 150, perhaps they would have had an extra second or two to alter the flight path. I know of at least one landing incident involving damage in addition to the totalled 22 of last week as well, which would raise their actuarial eyebrows to be sure.
Perhaps there is something unique about the combination of the plane and the profile of the typical owner (or the training thereof) that leads to more frequent insurance claims? I get the feeling that a large number of the SR2x owners (particularly the 20) are 200 hour pilots who have spent almost all of their time flying 172s. The landing characteristics of the Cirri make up the single biggest difference between the two (in terms of how they fly). Perhaps more focused training is necessary about the differences, and about the consequences of reverting to 172 habits.
Speed is also an issue, though we tend to think of it in terms of slowing down to get into the pattern, or as time compression when flying instrument approaches. Driving home the message that it is a really good idea to slow down if you’re MVFR (and the plane will happily fly as slowly as a 172) would be a good thing. Also a graphic demonstration of how much more space (and bank angle) it takes to make a standard rate turn at 150 knots versus 110.
Hopefully Cirrus and Wings Aloft are thinking along the same lines.
Dave good point i hope we dont have many incidents w the 22 especially , or the insurance on these airplanes may be very high