Insurance issues

I just put a deposit down on a SR20, but the cheapest insurance quote I am getting through Aopa is over 7000.
I have 250 hrs and an instrument rating. They told me that Global will not insure someone with less than 300 hrs. At this point I am seriously thinking of canceling my order. Any one have any suggestions.

Are you aware of the insurance rebates availablre through Cirrus design for first time buyers? Have you discussed this with your Cirrus sales person?

In reply to:

They told me that Global will not insure someone with less than 300 hrs.

Get 50 hours quickly!

Not only will this (according to your agent) get you more quotes, you will gain valuable experience and have a ball too!

ouch. I’m waiting for my insurance quotes, I too just put down a deposit on an SR20 and insurance may be a deal-killer for me too if it comes out like yours. I’ve got 350 and an instrument rating. If it’s too high, the order gets cancelled.

Do you know what the quote would be if you did have 300 hours? That would tell you what insurance might be in the second year, which is in some ways more important. You could go get 50 hours, but even if you rent at 50 an hour that’s 2500 bucks, so you’d need to get a much lower quote to make it worthwhile. If you get some comfort that you’ll save a lot in the second year when you have more than 300 hours and a bunch of hours in type too, it’s probably worth taking a nasty
hit this year to get into the plane, consider it part of the cost of purchase.

Since when did insurance companies want 300 hours, heck I insured my first mooney when I had 80, wasn’t instrument rated and that was my first retract.

I have 400 hrs instrument and 200 hrs on SR22. I paid about 4200 last year and it is going up to 6300 this year even with 200 more cirrus hours. I think you should just bite the bullet and buy the plane. The first year will be high, but that should go down somewhat as you get hours in type, IF no more cirri are crashed this year.

Hello, I’m new to the message board as i have recently purchased an SR20. I pick it up towards the end of August. I have read the insurance thread and it does raise a big concern. I’m a new pilot and my quote was a heart stopping $10,700!! How ever I have been reassured through my sales representative that I’m only responsible for $5500 and that cirrus picks up the tab on the difference, as long as I fly the plane 150 hours during the first year and get my IR with the first year. I have been told to put as my hours in on the plane as I can during the first year. I assume this is correct about the customer Insurance Support Program? Has anyone had any different experiences with this Support Program?

Thanks, Scott

I saw a post on the Lancair forum that they were getting quotes of $8,000. now.

I went through the same deal. CANCEL your contract or Cirrus will steal your deposit.

The rebates are only for those that are not instrumented rated.

I would talk to Cirrus again. If they want to continue selling planes and be in the market of selling to low time pilots, they are going to have to assist with the insurance burden until than insanity of the inmsurance market calms down. This is a lose-lose for everybody even though it is the fault of a few.
I disagree with Scott Prinz (which I rarely do). The insurance can very well be a deal breaker because it is a recurrent cost that you pay year after year rather than a one time start up cost. Part of the decision of purchase involves an assessment of value. If the operting costs are high, that is a disincentive to own as your hourly costs make the fun of flying melt away in favor of the burden of the monthly costs.
This will drive more folks back to renting and fractional ownership which are not great deals in themselves.

As I’m finding, any time you don’t have experience in a type the first 100 hrs is going to be expensive for insurance. right now for instrument rated 100 TT in type rates are in the 4K range

No offense to anyone here - but it is hard to imagine that insurance cost is a " deal killer " ( I actually typed dear killer ) oooops …

Anyway, we are all different - but when I purchased my Bonanza three years ago the insurance cost was $15,200 per year with a drop to $5800 if I got an instrument rating in the first 12 months. Now granted, I was still a student pilot and wanted to fly the Bonanza with my instructor and also fly the primary trainer ( Archer lll ). But my point is - that 1,000 hours over the three year period later, I have much more experience and much cheaper insurance. Additionally, the high first year cost, amortized (a word for M. Busch) over the life of my flying career is peanuts…so is $2500 for that matter.

I suggest you work something out with your insurance company to fly with an instructor for the 25 to 50 hours you need to make them feel comfortable…and travel a bunch in the first month with someone who can help you tighten up your skills in the 20. Unless there is some other underlying reason to change your mind… whenever I hear things like - my " wife " may cancel the deal ----- or the insurance costs may cause me to change my mind …I think of Buyer Remorse.

For crying out loud - get out there and enjoy your life and stop looking for reasons to spoil your fun. Who is your favorite person in the whole world ? That’s right YOU !! Now go treat YOU to a new aircraft and stop short changing yourself !!! And for goodness sakes - stop whining just get on with it :slight_smile:

PS Try Nation Air - JT Helms …they work well with Cirrus and are very competetive

here’s a datapoint for you, I just got my quote. I’m 350 hours, Private, Instrument insuring an SR20 at hull of 250K. Quote was 6,350 for 1M/100K. That’s quite a lot more than the salesman’s estimate when I asked the question before placing the order (insurance was high up on my concern list).

Talking to the insurance agent they don’t think I’m being penalized for having 0 cirrus time, if I had the same hours and 100 in type, they would have still expected a very similar quote. I do have 200 hours of high performance and retract time, that may have helped a little.

I pretty much agree with you, I did suggest to the original poster that the second year insurance was more important than the first. I do think it’s important to figure out what insurance will level out to after the first year so you know what the ongoing cost of ownership is. Provided insurance is likely to fall after the first year to something more reasonable, I think you should put the first year down as cost of purchase.

I’m still waiting for my quotes, I just checked my last plane, a mooney M20R with hull value at 360K, for that I paid 6500 the first year but it fell to 4000 the second, I thought that was a reasonable annual ongoing cost. The hull coverage portion was running about 1% of hull value.

I do think it’s necessary to look at the ongoing costs of things like insurance and, if they are significantly higher than other planes, it could be a reason not to think about buying something else.

In reply to:

No offense to anyone here - but it is hard to imagine that insurance cost is a " deal killer "

I can certainly see how a $7000 insurance bill could be a deal killer.

I’m not sure that Cirrus insurance is all THAT much more than other planes’ of similar capability. But if it really is several thousand more, per year, than a comparable plane, then I would have to disagree with you and say it could be a deal killer for a lot of people.

I’m holding my breath to see what this year’s insurance premium will be. If it also doubles, like it has for Art and others, I may also be looking around for a cheaper plane…

As a data point, our second year insurance (no claims) was double the first year. In addition new requirements were added for yearly recurrent training and a yearly IPC.

really - that’s not a very nice datapoint and rather destroys my argument of sacrificing the first year for the second.

Doubled from what to what on what hull value and what’s the experience of the least-experienced pilot in the plane, if you don’t mind elaborating?

Annual recurrent training, what does that cost, and an IPC, I don’t think I’ve ever heard that requirement before.

What are you doing about it?

Art, which insurance company was this? However, I don’t see anything wrong with an IPC check for any Cirrus driver. I think this should be incumbent upon ourselves. I think we fly in a potentially very demanding environment, often single pilot and perhaps recurrent training is the answer.

Interesting. As an additional (and contrasting) datum, My 2nd year premium went down 50%, while my coverage went up!

1st year: $5400.00 for 1M/100K liability, 200K hull
2nd year: $2700.00 for 1M CSL liability, 225K hull

The difference? Three factors: (1) My instrument ticket, (2) 200+ hours time in type, (3) switching from USAIG to Global. Of course, this was right before the nasty rate increase kicked in. I’m hoping that by next January, the insurance market has retreated from its current stance a bit.

As for recurrent training and IPCs: That’s a non-issue for me. My self-imposed CAT (continuing aviation training) requirements are that I attend at least one CPPP per year, do an annual flight review / IPC (because current isn’t always synonymous with proficient), and fulfill the requirements for another stage in the FAA’s WINGS program each year.

Another data point:
Year 1 350 hrs TT, Comm, Instr, 0 hrs in type Rate $3400 (USAIG)
Year 2 675 hrs TT, Added Multi, 275 hrs in type Rate $3400 (USAIG)
Year 3 1000 hrs TT, 550 hrs in type, added $1M smooth, Rate $2400 (Global)
Year 4 1350 hrs TT, 800 hrs in type, $1M smooth denied, Hull value reduced by $10,000, Rate $3800. (Global)

This is for an SR20, no claims of any kind.
As a result of the tragedies and other “incidents”, some of the insurance companies have taken a beating and they are clearly reflecting those losses in our renewal premiums, even with significant experience in type.
I’m considering upgrading to a -22. AOPA Ins says to expect $7500+. Deal breaker? Not likely but it does kind of piss me off.