Delayed Delivery

Guest Discussion
#1

Am reluctant to post my recent experience with delayed customer delivery in light of much of the nonsense posted lately. However, think those who are scheduling their pickup should be aware of what to watch for.

First, just the facts.

April Cirrus offers delivery 6/14

April I want some “cushion”, so I specify 6/20.

June Begin asking CD for confirmation of 6/20. 6/15 6/20 “Tight, but OK”

6/18 Won’t make 6/20, now 6/22. New reservations

6/19 Won’t make 6/22, now 6/26. New reservations.

6/20 I’m hoping the 6/26 date will stick ! ! !

Positives:

Cirrus personnel have generally been very nice throughout

CD offered to pick up penalty fees re reservations

Negatives:

Building in a 6 day cushion doesn’t help. CD simply reschedule your plane so that it is delivered “just in time”.

There is a strong reluctance on CDs part to recognize reality. It has been obvious from the delivery data for 6 weeks that they weren’t hitting 1 per day. But, they kept scheduling / confirming customers based on unrealistic production schedule.

Coordination between production and customer service could be improved. 6 days slippage, requiring 2 reschedles, only 2 days before pickup shouldn’t be acceptable to CD managment or its customers.

Bottom line

I am glad I’m retired. For a lot of reasons. I’d be furious if I was trying to reschedule pick up for the third time amid the commitments of my previous life.

Building in a cushion doesn’t work. MAYBE it would if you offered to take ownership and pay on the early date (by mail), pickup and train a week or so later.

Right answer is for CD to get production and production scheduling lined out. We’ve been hearing “1 per day” - or lately “running a solid 1 per day” - for a year now. They aren’t.

Until then, CD needs to build in reasonable allowance for slippage. They have been running 20-25% below their own production forecast all year. They need to recognize this in order to reduce the chaos for customers.

Flame shields up.

Bob

#2

Am reluctant to post my recent experience with delayed customer delivery in light of much of the nonsense posted lately. However, think those who are scheduling their pickup should be aware of what to watch for.

First, just the facts.

April Cirrus offers delivery 6/14

April I want some “cushion”, so I specify 6/20.

June Begin asking CD for confirmation of 6/20

. 6/15 6/20 “Tight, but OK”

6/18 Won’t make 6/20, now 6/22. New reservations

6/19 Won’t make 6/22, now 6/26. New reservations.

6/20 I’m hoping the 6/26 date will stick ! ! !

Positives:

Cirrus personnel have generally been very nice throughout

CD offered to pick up penalty fees re reservations

Negatives:

Building in a 6 day cushion doesn’t help. CD simply reschedule your plane so that it is delivered “just in time”.

There is a strong reluctance on CDs part to recognize reality. It has been obvious from the delivery data for 6 weeks that they weren’t hitting 1 per day. But, they kept scheduling / confirming customers based on unrealistic production schedule.

Coordination between production and customer service could be improved. 6 days slippage, requiring 2 reschedles, only 2 days before pickup shouldn’t be acceptable to CD managment or its customers.

Bottom line

I am glad I’m retired. For a lot of reasons. I’d be furious if I was trying to reschedule pick up for the third time amid the commitments of my previous life.

Building in a cushion doesn’t work. MAYBE it would if you offered to take ownership and pay on the early date (by mail), pickup and train a week or so later.

Right answer is for CD to get production and production scheduling lined out. We’ve been hearing “1 per day” - or lately “running a solid 1 per day” - for a year now. They aren’t.

Until then, CD needs to build in reasonable allowance for slippage. They have been running 20-25% below their own production forecast all year. They need to recognize this in order to reduce the chaos for customers.

Flame shields up.

Bob

#3

Bob-- Thanks for this info—It will help us this year–and it does not help that they are willing to pick up penalties for airlines etc, I cant believe Cirrus can be that lax–sorry to hera it tom

Am reluctant to post my recent experience with delayed customer delivery in light of much of the nonsense posted lately. However, think those who are scheduling their pickup should be aware of what to watch for.

First, just the facts.

April Cirrus offers delivery 6/14

April I want some “cushion”, so I specify 6/20.

June Begin asking CD for confirmation of 6/20. 6/15 6/20 “Tight, but OK”

6/18 Won’t make 6/20, now 6/22. New reservations

6/19 Won’t make 6/22, now 6/26. New reservations.

6/20 I’m hoping the 6/26 date will stick ! ! !

Positives:

Cirrus personnel have generally been very nice throughout

CD offered to pick up penalty fees re reservations

Negatives:

Building in a 6 day cushion doesn’t help. CD simply reschedule your plane so that it is delivered “just in time”.

There is a strong reluctance on CDs part to recognize reality. It has been obvious from the delivery data for 6 weeks that they weren’t hitting 1 per day. But, they kept scheduling / confirming customers based on unrealistic production schedule.

Coordination between production and customer service could be improved. 6 days slippage, requiring 2 reschedles, only 2 days before pickup shouldn’t be acceptable to CD managment or its customers.

Bottom line

I am glad I’m retired. For a lot of reasons. I’d be furious if I was trying to reschedule pick up for the third time amid the commitments of my previous life.

Building in a cushion doesn’t work. MAYBE it would if you offered to take ownership and pay on the early date (by mail), pickup and train a week or so later.

Right answer is for CD to get production and production scheduling lined out. We’ve been hearing “1 per day” - or lately “running a solid 1 per day” - for a year now. They aren’t.

Until then, CD needs to build in reasonable allowance for slippage. They have been running 20-25% below their own production forecast all year. They need to recognize this in order to reduce the chaos for customers.

Flame shields up.

Bob

#4

Am reluctant to post my recent experience with delayed customer delivery in light of much of the nonsense posted lately. However, think those who are scheduling their pickup should be aware of what to watch for.

First, just the facts.

April Cirrus offers delivery 6/14

April I want some “cushion”, so I specify 6/20.

June Begin asking CD for confirmation of 6/20. 6/15 6/20 “Tight, but OK”

6/18 Won’t make 6/20, now 6/22. New reservations

6/19 Won’t make 6/22, now 6/26. New reservations.

6/20 I’m hoping the 6/26 date will stick ! ! !

Positives:

Cirrus personnel have generally been very nice throughout

CD offered to pick up penalty fees re reservations

Negatives:

Building in a 6 day cushion doesn’t help. CD simply reschedule your plane so that it is delivered “just in time”.

There is a strong reluctance on CDs part to recognize reality. It has been obvious from the delivery data for 6 weeks that they weren’t hitting 1 per day. But, they kept scheduling / confirming customers based on unrealistic production schedule.

Coordination between production and customer service could be improved. 6 days slippage, requiring 2 reschedles, only 2 days before pickup shouldn’t be acceptable to CD managment or its customers.

Bottom line

I am glad I’m retired. For a lot of reasons. I’d be furious if I was trying to reschedule pick up for the third time amid the commitments of my previous life.

Building in a cushion doesn’t work. MAYBE it would if you offered to take ownership and pay on the early date (by mail), pickup and train a week or so later.

Right answer is for CD to get production and production scheduling lined out. We’ve been hearing “1 per day” - or lately “running a solid 1 per day” - for a year now. They aren’t.

Until then, CD needs to build in reasonable allowance for slippage. They have been running 20-25% below their own production forecast all year. They need to recognize this in order to reduce the chaos for customers.

Flame shields up.

Bob

Bob, Good things come to those who wait! But in this case I can tell you that GREAT things come if you just wait…Ed (157CD), (224DE)

#5

Hey Gang, try and be realistic. This is a new airplane, that started from a clean sheet of paper. We all knew this when we ordered. Ramping up production is not easy when dealing with 100Â’s of workstations, thousands of components, and 100Â’s of people.

Having built yachts for many years, I can assure you that the task is formidable, even for a mature product and company. You are always trying to come up with better and faster solutions. Right now, they are constantly rearranging the work flow, fine tuning the quality while at the same time, incorporating new methods.

When I picked up my SR22, I spent as much time as I could watching the production line. These people building your aircraft are totally dedicated to delivering us a very special and SAFE aircraft. They have cut the man hours required to build one by 4,000 hours, while at the same time, improving the Quality. Trust me, that is not easy.

They will and must continue to fine tune the assembly process. They have hired an outside consulting firm to study the methodology of the entire process. Rearranging workstations and the processes will speed up the deliveries, but each change nearly slows up things for a few days until everyone gets up to speed. It will pay off big time, and we will have an even better aircraft. More importantly, it will allow Cirrus to be Profitable. My guess right now, is that they are close to breaking even with nearly one per day being delivered. When they reach 3 per day, this company will become a Powerhouse in the Aviation Industry.

They clearly have a great team of people and I have a better feeling about this company than many that I have visited in my life.

A word about Marketing; With a 590 Aircraft backlog now, can you imagine how many more orders they will have when they can deliver a Cirrus in 6 months? Most people will not wait for six months or more as we have. Even more will not wait for a year or more. When the company is delivering 3 or more per day, they will be flooded with orders.

I can tell you first hand, this plane is very special! Everywhere I stop in my SR22, pilots are amazed at the Quality and the beauty of this wonderful aircraft. I have taken up about 20 different people now, and about half will order a Cirrus very soon, and at least 3 have already contacted Cirrus.

While I understand you frustrations, I can assure you it will be worth the wait. Because of what is going on now in Production, you will have a better aircraft. If anyone with a “less than a six month delivery” wants to drop out, kindly e-mail me and I have some friends who will gladly take your position and give you your investment back…

I wish you all well, Denis

#6

Bob-- Thanks for this info—It will help us this year–and it does not help that they are willing to pick up penalties for airlines etc, I cant believe Cirrus can be that lax–sorry to hera it tom

It is not too late to consider something else.

#7

Ed,

Yes, it’s a great plane, but that’s simply bad business.

What if Bob simply decide to tell Cirrus “Sure, I’ll be there on 6/15” and then pushed them back 10 days right near the end? Perhaps that would be a better overall customer strategy to make sure they don’t get “screwed.” That would be horrible for Cirrus and Wings Aloft training.

If they don’t iron out this kind of stuff though, people will start to react defensively, and it will just escallate.

Paul

#8

Ed,

Yes, it’s a great plane, but that’s simply bad business.

What if Bob simply decide to tell Cirrus “Sure, I’ll be there on 6/15” and then pushed them back 10 days right near the end? Perhaps that would be a better overall customer strategy to make sure they don’t get “screwed.” That would be horrible for Cirrus and Wings Aloft training.

If they don’t iron out this kind of stuff though, people will start to react defensively, and it will just escallate.

Paul

Lets not loss sight of we as early owners are on the upside of the learning curve. I guess as a contractor if I can hit a date within 2 weeks everyone is happy! Signed…always late

#9

Ed,

Yes, it’s a great plane, but that’s simply bad business.

What if Bob simply decide to tell Cirrus “Sure, I’ll be there on 6/15” and then pushed them back 10 days right near the end? Perhaps that would be a better overall customer strategy to make sure they don’t get “screwed.” That would be horrible for Cirrus and Wings Aloft training.

If they don’t iron out this kind of stuff though, people will start to react defensively, and it will just escallate.

Paul

Lets not loss sight of we as early owners are on the upside of the learning curve. I guess as a contractor if I can hit a date within 2 weeks everyone is happy! Signed…always late

P.S. Hope all is well with you, your family …Ed

#10

Right now, they are constantly rearranging the work flow, fine tuning the quality while at the same time, incorporating new methods.

…yeah, one of these rearrangings is not to install anymore plugs for Bose headsets or the Reiff preheaters “due to production requirements” as Chris Dixon wrote me yesterday.

Wilfried

#11

Right now, they are constantly rearranging the work flow, fine tuning the quality while at the same time, incorporating new methods.

…yeah, one of these rearrangings is not to install anymore plugs for Bose headsets or the Reiff preheaters “due to production requirements” as Chris Dixon wrote me yesterday.

Wilfried

Wilfried, I can understand that. Custom work and changes is a huge drain on them. Everyone wants something different in headsets and other things. Later on, they will be set up to do this type of work, but you can likely get done at your local FBO for less anyway. I did.

Denis

#12

…yeah, one of these rearrangings is not to install anymore plugs for Bose headsets or the Reiff preheaters “due to production requirements” as Chris Dixon wrote me yesterday.

Wilfried

I agree that this is an inconvenience. However, Chris Dixon explained to me that his group cannot touch the airplane until it has an airworthiness certificate. That means the plane must be fully assembled and test-flown.

While I’m sure that his group would love to install pre-heaters and headset jacks while the plane is still on the assembly line, the FAA won’t allow it.

-Mike

#13

but you can likely get done at your local FBO for less anyway. I did.

Denis

…you bet we’ll do

#14

I agree that this is an inconvenience. However, Chris Dixon explained to me that his group cannot touch the airplane until it has an airworthiness certificate. That means the plane must be fully assembled and test-flown.

While I’m sure that his group would love to install pre-heaters and headset jacks while the plane is still on the assembly line, the FAA won’t allow it.

-Mike

Mike, FWIW this is what he wrote.

“Due to production requirements we are no longer accepting orders to install Bose headsets or Reiff heaters.”

They are no longer accepting orders, i.e. they did before & do not anymore…

Wilfried

#15

I hope they thought about how to pick up a new plane on a freezing day in Duluth without preheat.

I agree that this is an inconvenience. However, Chris Dixon explained to me that his group cannot touch the airplane until it has an airworthiness certificate. That means the plane must be fully assembled and test-flown.

While I’m sure that his group would love to install pre-heaters and headset jacks while the plane is still on the assembly line, the FAA won’t allow it.

-Mike

Mike, FWIW this is what he wrote.

“Due to production requirements we are no longer accepting orders to install Bose headsets or Reiff heaters.”

They are no longer accepting orders, i.e. they did before & do not anymore…

Wilfried