In reply to:
I also live in San Diego, flying into Santa Fe and north of there. A SR22 or a plane with an turbo charged engine is highly recommended if you fly in the mountains.
At Santa Fe you’re off the performance charts in an SR20 when the temp is above 68 degrees (which it is quite often.) I had an SR20 out here during the winter, but bought an SR22 the following spring, just in time.
In reply to:
Definitely an SR22.
The SR20 would have a range for you of something like 300-400NM, but you
would be pretty limited in the temperature and altitude of the airports you would
take off from, fully loaded. Above 68F, you wouldn’t be able to takeoff from
an airport at any altitude above say 3000ft. Your climb gradient would
be something like 400-700FPM.
Michael
Michael;
I am not sure where you get your figures from but I own a 20.
I have a useful load of 985 lbs
I have a payload of 649 with full fuel
I regularly fly 600km legs loaded
I often fly from 90+ degree airports in Florida
You are correct that the climb rate is not the best under those circumstances, but then again, you can buy a pre-owned SR20 loaded in the $200k range.
Figures are from the SR20 POH. Fully loaded, the weight (650 Lbs + bags) Ifly
mentioned, a reasonable cruise altitude (8000ft), and 1 hour reserve fuel. The
100Lbs I used includes bags, tools&supplies (oil, windshield cleaner, etc.),
cameras, flight bag, cover, towbar, carpet mats, headsets, manuals, and all the
other misc. stuff we keep in our planes, maybe this should have been more.
In your aircraft:
Anyways, this is what my calculation was based on. Perhaps you weren’t using
this loading/altitude, and perhaps you get bettern fuel economy than 10 GPH?
Given this situation, and your fuel flow at 8000ft, what range do you see in your
plane?
Michael
In reply to:
I will never take a 20 into a short grass strip again.
OK, your right. A 20 is not too good at short grass strips.
In reply to:
Give me the 22 anyday
Give me an extra $80-100k and I will give you a 22 anyday.
THEREFORE:
If short grass strips are not a real big issue, and
If your “budget” is an issue in your purchase decision.
Act accordingly. Both are great aircraft. You just have to look at the mission and the budget and pick. You can’t go wrong.
In reply to:
I am a flight instructor with about 350 hours in almost all of the Cirrus line. I have flown the 20, the old 22, the 22 with tks and flight max, the Centeniel, and the G2. Each have their own ups and downs but I think the 20 is a bit under powered. I took one into a 2600 foot grass strip that is at only 700 msl. It was a real challenge to get it back out over an obstical. I will never take a 20 into a short grass strip again. Give me the 22 anyday.
Like all planes, the SR20 (& SR22) has missions it is better for and others that it is not. You really have to determine what your mission and priorities are and then compare it to your budget.
Personally, I wouldn’t take my SR22, regardless of how lightly loaded or the DA, into a grass strip, but that is just my preference. The wheels are tightly faired and the fairings are prone to grass stains or minor cosmetic damage. If let to sit on a relatively soft field it has a tendancy to sink in a bit. (The '20 is better in this regard as it is lighter.) On the other hand, many owners do frequent grass strips and some even base their Cirruses on them.
I agree that the SR20 is not a 'pickup truck or a great short field plane. If that is part of your mission, I would look to the used Cessna 182s, 206’s, Cherokee 6s or Maules. The SR22 is a terrific travelling plane, and I routinely take 600 - 800 NM trips without fuel stops and carrying over 600 lbs in the cockpit. I have much less experience with the SR20, but for longer trips it is great 2 person airplane, and ideal for shorter trips and $100 hamburgers. It is also a lot cheaper than the SR22 (the new C-182, new Cherokee 6, or any Lancair for that matter), but it depends what your needs are.
If you are looking for more comparisons, they have been discussed here quite a few times. I suggest you try the SEARCH button at the top and look through the public forum and its archives.
Good luck with your choice.
In reply to:
Since you are in San Diego, you may want to look into Ourplane’s fractional '22 that is based there. http://www.ourplane.com. Might not be the cheapest route vs used, etc. but could be an option.
Clif,
Been looking at the fractional opportunity. Do you operate your Cirrus under Part 91, Sub Part K (franctional)?
Gerry
In reply to:
Clif,
Been looking at the fractional opportunity. Do you operate your Cirrus under Part 91, Sub Part K (franctional)?
Gerry
Per Ourplane:
“We operate purely under part 91. Because our program is owner flown we do not fall under the subchapter K program. For owners that are not yet pilots or do not have the minimum qualifications to fly our SR22, we can provide a list of qualified commercial pilots to fly them in their aircraft.
Hope this helps.”
In reply to:
Also, if you are considering joining the COPA website, like so many of the members has suggested you do in their replies to your initial question, take a look at the most recent posts regarding “Should you join COPA?”, look at some of the names that left you replies here and then the replies some of those same members left when they replied to the question about whether a person should join COPA. Sure it is chock full of info, some good, some opinion, but I fail to see how joining will help you decide to buy a 20 or 22 or some other plane. I have found some members to be personally insulting instead of allowing a person to give their opinion whether it’s aviation-related or human dignity oriented.
Fly a cirrus and you will never want to fly anything else.
SR22 is the best plane I have ever flown in the past 26 years as a private pilot. COPA is a great group to join. I have learned a lot about airplanes, engines, navigation, weather, and a bunch of other aviation related information. I keep learning new things as a COPA member. Whenever there is a problem or a question, I post it on the COPA site and get stimulating perspectives and opinions. This unnamed person has one perspective of COPA. As a COPA member I respect his view (as one does of others in a democratic society) but completely disagree with it.
Sincerely,
Salil C. Tiwari
N258ST
#307 with GAMI and all (no PFD and no Wx)
Thank you Salil for respecting my opinion as I do yours even if we disagree, however, I do have a name, just choose to remain Dr. Mouse but that doesn’t mean my opinions are any less valid than if I told you my name.
In reply to:
Figures are from the SR20 POH. Fully loaded, the weight (650 Lbs + bags) and
cruise altitude (8000ft) Ifly mentioned, and 1 hour reserve fuel. The 100Lbs I used
includes bags, tools&supplies (oil, windshield cleaner, etc.), cameras, flight bag,
and all the other misc. stuff we keep in our planes, maybe this should have been
more.
In your aircraft:
- 985 Lbs useful load
- 650Lbs + bags (100Lbs) = 750Lbs
- 985 - 750 = 235Lbs maximum for fuel = 39.2 gallons
- Start/taxi: 1 gallon
- Climb to 8000ft: 2.9 gallons, 21NM
- Reserve: 1 hour @ 10GPH = 10 gallons
- Remaining fuel for cruise: 25 gallons
----- 25 gallons @ 10 GPH = 2.5 hours @ 142 KTAS = 355 NM- Total range: 21+355 = 376NM
Anyways, this is what my calculation was based on. Perhaps you weren’t using
this loading/altitude, and perhaps you get bettern fuel economy than 10 GPH?
Given this situation, and your fuel flow at 8000ft, what range do you see in your
plane?
Michael
Michael;
Lord knows I can’t add. I failed algebra twice. But so did Einstein. (I take my consolation where I can find it. I can’t spell worth a whooot either.)
Anyway.
The empty weight is 2085
I can add in 56 gal (336 if I am multipying correctly)
Lets see now. . . that makes 2421 lbs worth of SR20 and full fuel.
If I subtract 2421 from the gross weight of 3000 lbs I get 579 lbs worth of suff I can carry, with full fuel and 759 if I fill up to the tabs which gives me 26 gal, or 2+ hrs flying
And at 11 GPH 56 gal should last me 4+ hrs and still give me a 45 min reserve.
And all that without an midair refuel
If you use the 650+ bags standard (650+130) you would get a 780 capacity. My SR20 is a “C” model, so it might have more weight than a stripped model.
see my thread about “i flew a G1000 today” about a month back, sorry I don’t know how to link it here. No choice in my opinion.
In reply to:
… sorry I don’t know how to link it here…
Here’s the link.
Excellent analysis! The only other difference not mentioned is the aircraft’s speed - the SR22 G2 will fly 182k wide open (or 177k lean of peak, 13.4gph). Not sure what the real numbers are for the SR20. Speed can make a big difference in which trips are practical.
I flew this weekend to visit my sister in Augusta, Ga from Dallas (4 hours with 30k tailwind). Returning home into a 25k headwind took 5 hours. Figure on similar wind conditions with a slower plane & see how long it takes to do the same trip.
I started looking at a used SR20, but quickly realized the speed and climb out (in the summer) would be a serious limitation. Another issue: A/C can only be added on SR22s.
A friend bought a used SR20 and kept it only 6 months. He sold it and bought a used SR22.
Might as well get a plane you will want to keep.
Paul
SR22 G2 (March 2004 delivery)