Problems with my new Cirrus

Guest Discussion
1

I would like to share with everyone my short experience with my 2 months old SR22 G2. This past week, I logged 80 hours during a week long cross-country (CT to VA, DC, SC, OH, PA, NJ and back to CT) and to my dismay I experienced different problems with the airplane. The following is the list of the problems that has to be fixed.

  1. Propeller leaking grease – this problem was actually found on my trip home from Duluth. Cirrus told me to monitor and see if this problem would disappear. However, the problem gets worst and the prop will have to be serviced by Hertzel. I was told that it will take about 2 weeks.
  2. Flap selector stuck at 0 degree. I remember thinking from day one that the selector felt “cheap”.
  3. Low oil temp at cruise (152 F). Oil valve that restrict oil flow is suspected to be bad.
  4. Intermittent “TAWS Failed” massage on MFD. Some times resetting the fuse during flight helps, but not every time.
  5. “Lighting Failed 50” massage during flight won’t reset during flight even after fuse was reset at flight. However, it disappeared the next day.
  6. #4 EGT jumping. #6 EGT was replaced last week.
  7. Transponder Mode C couldnÂ’t be seen by ATC intermittently.
  8. EMAX % power jump from 80% directly to 72% power.
  9. Shoulder harness locked up and will not release making impossible to reach all controls. I had to release the harness during flight to reach some controls.
  10. Shoulder harness has a 4” slack. Allow excess forward movement in case of accident.
  11. Screw fell off from LH wing tip near pitot tube.
  12. RH wing inboard fuel sump is sticky. I loose lots of fuel when taking a fuel sample.

It is very upsetting to me that I have to experience so many problems with a new airplane. I can only tie this to a poor quality control and some of the issues to the selection of poor quality parts.

My feeling is that Cirrus is growing too fast. They sell more airplanes then they can make and quality suffers. I would like to share with you all a story how arrogant Cirrus became.

A few weeks before my delivery date on September, I had a conversation with an instructor who logged 100+ hours flying Cirrus. I asked him what he doesnÂ’t like about Cirrus and his answer was the amount of problems he experienced with doors, avionics, seat belts, etc. I called my sales coordinator at Cirrus and shared my concerns especially since the closest Cirrus authorized service center is 3-4 hour drive away from my home. I wasnÂ’t really concerned about the safety of the plane but more about the smaller things that breaks that could make ownership a nightmare. I felt that if I buy a new plane (fully loaded as of September) for that amount of money I am going to spend, Cirrus should at least be responsible to pick up the plane whenever I accumulate a list of deficiencies that has to be corrected (such as the list above). Luxury car companies such as Lexus offer such a service. My sales coordinator promised to talk with her superiors and get back to me, but like other requests that I had it was forgotten. When the big moment arrived, I was sitting at the closing in Duluth, the certified check in the envelope waiting to change hands. I asked my sales coordinator what did she do with my request and she admitted that not much. She called the guy that was in charged of the warranties and he as well couldnÂ’t offer any comfort. After getting into a deadlock, she called her big boss who is in charged of their sales and marketing, a nice British guy who entered the room by himself closing the door behind him and communicating how disturb he is by my request. He told me that I am not the only customers and that he has 1500 more customers. He then offered me two options (showing me the two options on his fingers). The options in his exact words were. Option #1: take the plane with the warranty that Cirrus offers. Option #2 - go back home commercial because we can sell this plane 5 times. I am ashamed to admit that I behaved like a chicken and not like a businessman (I guess I really wanted the plane). I should have taken his second option, as I donÂ’t think that any customer who is going to leave $450K on the table, deserved to be treated this way.

Cirrus will have to do something about the quality of its product or it will soon feel its competition biting into its market share. Eventually, there will be times when Cirrus wont sale more planes then they can make.

I do love my Cirrus. It is fast. It is comfortable. It is full of goodies. But to my experience it is also full of problems. I hope that Cirrus will do more to fix these problems very soon.

2

It is nothing new. We have picked up our new SR-20 in April this year. From your list I have experienced #2, 5, 7, 9 and 12. On acceptance flight we had PFD failure and AP problem then later on: Oil Pressure Gauge miss indication, door problem, nose cover falling apart, and now we have Oil Light coming on with no apparent reason.

My opinion is exactly the same: Great airplane – needs a lot of quality and a few design improvements. - as I stated on my site.
I have to say with all the problems - Syracuse Service Center is great, very professional and it has been very good to us so far!

3

Eli:

Based on my own experience and from what I have seen on this forum, it seems you have more than an average set of problems. There are a few things I can suggest both as to your aircraft and to those waiting for delivery.

It has often been suggested that it is to your advantage to spend as much time as necessary flying the aircraft at Duluth. I had relatively few problems, but what is significant is that some of them did not appear until after flying for a few hours. My avionics master relay which failed to engage on a bone-chilling day at Superior, the pitch trim servo and the blind encoder calibration were not apparent until flying for a while.

All of these were fixed at Duluth and none has been a problem in the approximate 600 hours since.

The only significant failures I have had were the starter adaptor, flap relays (should not be a problem on your plane as better relays are in the production aircraft than were used in 2002 production), a roll trim servo, starter wire terminal failure due to vibration and various problems with Garmin avionics.

Get a new drain valve and don’t put this repair off. Your existing valve will drip sometime and you won’t be happy with the blue stain on the wheelpant since it is in most cases impossible to remove.

The seat belt issue was discussed at length at the COPA meeting at Long Beach. There is a SB on it which will replace a single reel with a separate reel for each shoulder strap. it is not a warranty item, but perhaps there is some flexibility at Cirrus on this issue with the problems you are seeing.

The British guy you saw is Ian Bently. He is the VP for Customer Service.

I think in general your comment about parts is not correct. There are some small parts which have been the cause of significant trouble, for example the connectors used in the EGT and CHT probes have been the source of trouble for many. I have had only a single probe connection issue and it was on a single probe and was attended to once and has remained fixed. But, the number of connector-related issues suggests that a better connector would definitely be in order for those connections.

AFIK the propeller leak is rare. Hartzell is a major manufacturer and I don’t know of any other that is better.

Flap problems related to the switch itself are rare AFIK. As I said, there were problems with the flap relays until a change in vendors a year or two ago.

The temperature valve in the oil is also a rare failure. This clearly needs immediate attention as you are cruising at below the boiling point of water at altitude and that is going to cause corrosion problems if not fixed right away. This is a Continental problem that can probably be fixed locally. Cirrus will work with your local shop on warranty repairs of this nature even if they are not a SC. Ask Cirrus and your local shop about it.

As to TAWS and lightning, I don’t have any information on that.

The EGT probes are probably not the source of the problem. Make sure whoever works on the aircraft checks the connectors to the probes. Use of a stabelant at the connectors is the recommended treatment. Send Gordon Feingold an email for specifics.

Transponder problems have been seen fairly often. Cirrus has incorporated a SB in current production that consists of a ground plane surrounding the antenna. There are some shading issues with the dual exhaust pipes. Make sure your antenna is free of any contamination.

I don’t know what to make about the EMax percent power. I strongly suspect it may be a sensor connector issue.

Shoulder harness is the subject of a new SB. See if you can get Cirrus to put in in under warranty.

Screws fall off the wings of nearly every GA aircraft. It is the flexing and vibration. I will leave it to those that know to compare the rate of such failures between Cirrus and say, Cessna.

Fix the fuel sump before it stains your wheelpant. If your SC does not have a vacuum pump set up to suck out and temporarily store your fuel, run that tank down as far as safe before bringing the plane in as they will have to empty it to replace the drain.

I did have a leaking drain that stained one wheelpant beyond repair. Fortunately Cirrus replaced both wheelpants and the new wheelpants and decals were installed at my first annual.

4

I have had my plane for 138 hours only 2 problems.Very minor, I think some times there is just a plane or so that dont come out just right. As far as the price our 20 amd 22 are a very good value for what we get. As oppossed to some other new airplanes. They are trying to push a lot of planes down the line. Employes are just humans and we have our bad days, we make mistakes if a few are on your plane wala. You have to jump thru the hopes, get them squarred away. Compound that to there venders and that is more issues. As for the statement about take it or leave it that sucks. I dont know what I would have done, but if it were a bussiness deal I would have said cut a check for my deposit and left. Good luck on these problems and keep us informed. Don

5

Wow! I guess I was lucky. I looked at a SR22 G2 here at San Diego, the SOCAL sales rep showed it off. I really liked the plane and had researched the SR22 on this forum and with other means. I decided that this is the plan for me. When I looked at the plane here at Montgomery I also asked the Sales rep for a demo flight. His answer was to find a flying club that has a Cirrus and see if they would give me a ride. I was annoyed with this answer but still interested in the purchase and asked for him to check on the availability of a demo SR22 for sale and some more pricing info. He said he would get back to me. He never did and I kept reading this forum. I finally gave up on any respone from Cirrus and with all the info from this board I decided to go another route. I agree, I believe that Cirrus might be over-burdened with such great demand for this plane and the first thing that suffers are quality and customer service.

Good luck to all and happy flying,

Matthias

6

You deserve an apology. Every sale should be with a big thank you. After all most Cirrus sales are from referrals of other owners. Bad experiences can kill a business much like a bad meal can shut down a restaurant.

Send a letter to the owners.

7

Wow! That’s amazing how arrogant the “British guy” was - what is his name? I am seriously considering a purchase of a Cirrus, but this has caused much pause. Please keep us updated as to how they respond! Thank you for sharing this!

Paul

8

As an Englishman who has just purchased his first plane, an SR20 with all the extras, I am saddened that a fellow countryman has treated you so badly. I had the misfortune to be at the Cirrus factory to “collect” my plane the day your Vice President arrived. It was cold day and my wife and I were asked to arrive at 07:30 in order to clear the necessary and quite acceptable security checks (even though we were told that your Secret Service had already cleared us). We were kept waiting outside in almost freezing weather for over an hour. Then, we were taken to a small room, without windows, where three other new customers were crowded in. Chaney’s henchmen had taken over the normal customer rooms. My wife and I waited in this room for three hours while they got our plane ready. Instead of accepting it in a bright, warm hangar, we were taken outside, given an immediate test flight carried out by a Cirrus pilot and taken back to the room without windows. I won’t bore you with any more details other than to say that the buying experience actually got worse and we decided that hanging around for several more hours was a complete waste of our time. However, we have found that the UK sales agent, Nick Tarratt of Caseright Ltd, based at Turweston airfield has more than made up for the factory’s rudeness. Also, our SR20 is now faultless. We reported a problem with the Mode S transponder and a few small paint chips during our check at the factory and were assured that these would be sorted. Needless to say, they weren’t sorted by the factory. As someone who has started and grown several companies, I do have some sympathy for Cirrus as they experience their own growth pains but there is so much they could be doing now. If it wasn’t for such great airplanes, they would be losing a lot of business to other manufacturers.

9

If you value the security of your computer and the personal information contained therein (address book, credit card information, etc.), do NOT click on the link offered in the above post.

10

Wow,

The sales rep for S FL, Robert Neuman, was always responsive and friendly. He helped me track down a demo after his got sold and even let me fly his demo to Pensacola to check out the Alabama-based demo I ended up buying.

I’ve had a handful of the “standard” issues, but have been satisfied in general in my first 250 hours with my plane. Again, mine was a factory demo, a good way to save money and get at least a mostly de-bugged plane.

11

My experience tracks with Ed’s. Sales representatives have been very persistent to give demo flights to me and all of my friends.

They are also very good, in my experience, identifying serious, qualified potential customers to offer the demo flights. Maybe they made a bad call in your case.

12

In reply to:

… I decided to go another route…

Matthias, out of curiosity, what other route did you pursue?

13

Like any other business, to be successful you not only need a good product, but also good employees and customer service. Otherwise your initial success will be short-lived. I am sure that my experience is not the norm for Cirrus, but it raised enough doubt with me to look somewhere else. I hope to be able to fly/own a Cirrus down the line, when things cool off a bit.

Matthias

14

You are probably right, reading the forum shows that the reps are usually pretty responsive. I will try again next time around.

Matthias

15

After investigating several other options such as Lancair, Piper, Beech, Diamond, Cessna, I started thinking more and more about what kind of flying (mission) I would like to do in the future. I like to be able to have access to dirt and gravel strips, have a good payload and also I am going to fly around Santa Fe and the Rockies. So, after all this research I decided on a Cessna Stationair Turbo T206H. Not as fast and stylish as a Cirrus, but I believe the right choice for my kind of flying. Delivery is scheduled for Dec 6th of this year.

Matthias

16

Maybe it will still come! it could be really nice to get a phone call from the CEO.
I promise to keep you all posted.

17

It is unfortunate that these isolated incidents have taken place and I am sure Cirrus would like to hear about them to improve their quality of service.
For those that already own one of these fine aircraft, I wouls suggest you take a trip to M3 next year to see what Cirrus really thinks about its customers.
I went to M2 this summer and have never been to an event in my life where the sponsoring company was so accomodating. Virtually any request was granted and the time, energy and expense donated by this company was a site to see. This was clearly an event of PURE customer service. I thank them again for all they have done for us.

18

Does anyone know what the dates for M3 are/will be?

19

In reply to:

Does anyone know what the dates for M3 are/will be?

Charles,

June 3rd - 5th 2005.

  • Mike.