Stuart SR-22 Crash With Fornells

Guest Discussion
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I am sad to report to all the COPA members that Glen and Barbara Fornell crashed their SR-22 into the ocean this past Saturday. Recovery has only turned up several items of the aircraft at the time of this posting. It is assumed that both Glen and Barbara parished in the crash.It was reported that they did die in today’s Stuart News.

The weather at the time was stormy when Glen called Palm Beach to let them know he was “having instrument problems” about 4 PM. Rescue divers from the St. Lucie and Martin County sheriff’s offices and the Coast Guard have been searching the crash site, 2 miles from Gilbert’s Bar House of Refuge on Hutchinson Island, for wreckage and clues.

I had the pleasure of flying with Barbara to provide a flight review in 2004. She was one of the sharpest pilots I had ever trained. I provided Glen some ground training and had know them through the COPA seminars which I had attended since taking the Cirrus factory training in 2003. They were both great pilots and good friends and know the COPA organization will miss them dearly.

If anyone would like me to provide more information as it becomes available, let me know. I leave in Stuart, FL very close to where the accident occurred.
Tom Gilmore MCFII
www.gilmoreaviation.com

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Hello Tom -

The unfortunate accident is being discussed at length in the members area right now.

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I’ve spoken with the family a couple times today. They are holding off with arrangements until they’re more certain of things. Found an area of interest upon which they plan to dive tomorrow a.m.

We’ll post info about any news we can, and any arrangements as they are made.

God speed to Glen and Barbara, our friends, and to Mario the other passenger who was a 32 year old father of 4.

JT

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These accidents continue at an alarming pace. I have been reading this forum since the SR20 was waiting to be certified and delivered.

This one appears to be avionics/glass panel related, but too many others are pilot error apparently This is such a great plane from all accounts, I wish there was a way to understand what it is that is creating these issues.

Having also lost friends in aviation accidents, I feel horribly for those involved.

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In reply to:

This one appears to be avionics/glass panel related. . .I wish there was a way to understand what it is that is creating these issues. .

Well, wild speculation isn’t the answer, unless you have some “avionics/glass panel” information that the rest of us don’t as relates to this accident.

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In reply to:

These accidents continue at an alarming pace. I have been reading this forum since the SR20 was waiting to be certified and delivered.
This one appears to be avionics/glass panel related, but too many others are pilot error apparently This is such a great plane from all accounts, I wish there was a way to understand what it is that is creating these issues.
Having also lost friends in aviation accidents, I feel horribly for those involved.

Freestone,

This was not a glass panel airplane - it had a conventional 6-pack.

Mike Radomsky
President
COPA

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I am sorry - I thought I had read that the pilot radioed an instrument failure, and had, maybe erroneously, assumed a panel failure like what happened a year plus ago in Florida.

I worry about panel failures as I contemplate ordering a new plane that has one.

Caravans are also going through a series of fatal accidents, but that has been determined why in icing conditions and the FAA is modifying their approvals for icing conditions.

I have been trying to figure out why the Cirrus is having issues - is it just pilot training? Everyone I know that flies them are thoughtful and safety conscious - though some are moderate time.

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Freestone,

Fifty bucks gets you admission to hundreds of 2006 posts that relate to Cirrus safety discussions on the member side of the forum.

I’d like to know who you are and welcome your input on the member side of the forums. I’m confident you’ll find it well worth mere $50. You’ve spend far too long on the guest side of the COPA site according to your original post.

Let’s all continue this on the member side and also welcome everyone else to the great value of a $50 membership.

Fly Safe!

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In reply to:

I am sorry - I thought I had read that the pilot radioed an instrument failure,

Which “instruments” in particular is it that he had a problem with. Flight instruments, engine instruments, perhaps something else. Again, do you have inside infomation or are you speculating some more?

In reply to:

. . and had, maybe erroneously, assumed a panel failure like what happened a year plus ago in Florida.

Are you sure they had a “panel” (and I assume you are referring to a PFD). Perhaps they had a 6 pack. Do you know? Also, what NTSB, or other report are you referring that says that a “panel failure” happened a year ago in Florida, or are you assuming some more?

In reply to:

I worry about panel failures as I contemplate ordering a new plane that has one.

No crime in worrying, but you should worry about the right things. If you worry about speculative events, you may be worrying about the wrong things.
I’m sure you know the expression, “junk in, junk out.” When you speculate about “cause” you do everything and everyone a disservice.
You may be right, or wrong, but you don’t know, nor do I. How is your training & skill level. Do you know your aircraft inside out? Can you handle every emergency. Which emergency can’t you handle & why not.
Almost anything that goes wrong with an aircraft is managable or preventable. Can you manage & prevent.
Every plane is safe, every plane is dangerous.

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In reply to:

Freestone,
Fifty bucks gets you admission to hundreds of 2006 posts that relate to Cirrus safety discussions on the member side of the forum.
I’d like to know who you are and welcome your input on the member side of the forums. I’m confident you’ll find it well worth mere $50. You’ve spend far too long on the guest side of the COPA site according to your original post.
Let’s all continue this on the member side and also welcome everyone else to the great value of a $50 membership.
Fly Safe!

Why not post the safety information in the free? Why is almost every post has a sale call to the member’s side? You want people to be safe in a Cirrus, push the safety to the FREE area. There are alot of people that fly cirrus’ that aren’t owners… so they aren’t joining every site of aircraft they fly.

/rant

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Jeez, this is the only aviation website I know where a few posters at least make it singularly unfriendly. You just jump on people in a very unfriendly way, and I have witnessed it a bit too often over the years. I followed the plane for a long time as I have at various times contemplated buying one. Every time someone raises a safety concern or wants to discuss it, someone like you seems to quickly state “this is being discussed amongst owners” brushoff, - or get personally attacked or called a troll.

Fine, I have only been flying 20 years and am passionate about it, but most pilots and forums where I occasionally go to seek information are the friendliest groups of people I know.

I know this is only a few people, but they are like this one in the tone of his response.

Go for example to the caravan website where we can have legitimate discussions about the future of the plane in icing without this type of passive agressive attacking.

Not this website, certainly not after it got divided into public vs private.

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Were did we become unfriendly?

When we asked that you ask accurate questions founded upon factually correct observation & information?
or
When we invited you to join us in a more detailed and in depth discussion, as a member of a caring community?

I really am sorry if it sounds sarcastic. It’s not intended. (well, maybe a little) When you make broad sweeping statements that are not accurate, nor well founded, . . . well, that inacuracy is the escence of what causes accidents.
Precision leads to safe flying, whether in word or fact.

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Freestone:

I extended a warm invitation to join on the member side. This is where 99% of the posts wind up. You will find tremendous value on the member side. There is no advertising here so how do you think this is all financially supported…by membership. The posts are very open discussions.

On the other hand I do not view your posts as warm or friendly(especially since you don’t even sign a name to them).

Why would you come to www.cirruspilots.org over several years and supposedly consider purchasing a Cirrus yet need so much anonimity? Names are attached to everyone except you that has commented in this thread.

Remember that some of the respondents to this post were very fond of the victims in this weekend’s tragedy. Emotions can be a part of these posts.

I hope to find learn more about you on the member side of the forums.

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No body is being unfriendly, and if you come over to the members side of the site where there is a wealth of information, you will see that is the case. What Dennis is trying to do is point out that speculation does not assist anyone. Your posts imply that there was a glass panel on this plane (there was not), that an earlier accident was a glass panel (no such evidence), and that glass panels are somehow accident prone (clearly no such evidence). For those who are not members, and stop by here on the guest side, this speculation propegates rumors about our aircraft. In addition, over speculation of inaccurate assumptions of events involving the death of a dedicated Board Member of this organization and friend to many of its members also causes us to be a bet testy - but not unfriendly.

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In reply to:

Jeez, this is the only aviation website I know where a few posters at least make it singularly unfriendly. You just jump on people in a very unfriendly way, and I have witnessed it a bit too often over the years. I followed the plane for a long time as I have at various times contemplated buying one. Every time someone raises a safety concern or wants to discuss it, someone like you seems to quickly state “this is being discussed amongst owners” brushoff, - or get personally attacked or called a troll.

Fine, I have only been flying 20 years and am passionate about it, but most pilots and forums where I occasionally go to seek information are the friendliest groups of people I know.

I know this is only a few people, but they are like this one in the tone of his response.
Go for example to the caravan website where we can have legitimate discussions about the future of the plane in icing without this type of passive agressive attacking.

Not this website, certainly not after it got divided into public vs private.

Others have responded, but let me add my perspective. I’m a long-time COPA member and very interested in your concerns about our community. Although you claim to have been around for years, your member profile is newly created to make these posts. I don’t know what to make of that, except that I don’t know much about you, your interests, your connection to safe flying, etc. Frankly, the COPA community demonstrates a lot more caring for people flying Cirrus planes that I ever expected from an Internet-based group of people using computers to talk to each other.

However, one of your posts contains a key question:

In reply to:

This one appears to be avionics/glass panel related, but too many others are pilot error apparently This is such a great plane from all accounts, I wish there was a way to understand what it is that is creating these issues.

And COPA has been working very hard over the past four years to understand what is creating these issues. So we believe that there is a way. Join COPA, read the members postings, participate in COPA safety events, no plane required.
Despite your experience, were you aware that Aero-News.net recognized COPA as one of the best programs in 2005? Their summary: “one of the most valuable safety and educational programs that owners of the Cirrus Design series of aircraft can engage in. Via a very active series of chatboards, annual meetings, regional and international classes, and countless safety, social and educational programs, COPA has built an esprit de corps among CD flyers that has no equal in GA (though a few others are starting to emulate the model… GOOD for them).”

Having said all of that to explain why COPA matters to me, let me extend an invitation to stay a little longer and learn more about your questions and your concerns.

Cheers
Rick

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Freestone:

  1. I don’t speak for the COPA Board, but I believe this free Guest Forum is made available without any high expectations of what its value might be. COPA members know that any nutcase can post weird things here. I am NOT saying your post falls in that category. However, I hope you recognize that you DID make some unfounded assumptions in a fairly cavalier manner about an event that was, and is, a raw open wound for COPA members. While you were asking shoot-from-the-hip questions, people were crying. Many still are.

  2. COPA members also know that reasonable, well-intentioned people might make posts here. When this occurs, you will invariably see helpful, well-intentioned responses from COPA members.

  3. If you think that the Guest Forum exists simply to try to get $50 from people such as yourself, well in that case you simply don’t get it.

Jim Knollenberg SR20 1281 N814

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Welcome to the Church of Cirrus where blasphemers are tolerated very poorly if at all. It might be worth joining, but don’t expect any less defensiveness inside.

Joe

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Remember what Dave Gwinn said about thunderstorms at M3!!! His talk really stayed with me!

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Tracy:

Here’s the best FREE advice I can give anyone on the guest side of the www.cirruspilots.org website. Join COPA for $50! Honestly, how is this any different that someone suggesting you buy a better headset, training tapes, get checked out in a tail dragger, etc.? Am I a headset salesman, King schools salesman, or a flight school sales man for making these suggestions?

I can only speak from experience. The “Guest” side of COPA doesn’t get much activity. I reluctantly joined and then realized there are years of PIREPs about pilot skills and Cirrus. It was well worth the $50.

A “sale” by me to anyone on the guest side is more of a testimonial: “Come on in…the water’s fine!” I certainly do not benefit financially from selling anyone. I’m sure there is a laundry list of costs associated in maintaining the COPA forums. I do not expect someone else to subsidize my education and knowledge about a 100% voluntary activity such as flying. Sometimes a sales pitch is exactly what you need.

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In reply to:

There are alot of people that fly cirrus’ that aren’t owners… so they aren’t joining every site of aircraft they fly.

This one joined. I’m not an owner, and only recently a Cirrus Pilot, but I’ve found it valuable to be a member for the past year and a half. Just for my piloting education in general. It’s my opinion if you truly want to be as safe and informed as possible in the planes you fly you WILL seek out (and pay for if necessary) ALL available information. I’d estimate there are tens of thousand of collective Cirrus flying hours behind the active posters on this site. Who do you discuss Cirrus questions and concerns with? How informed are they? Do you know what you don’t know?