Hello,
I am currently a Cessna 182 owner / driver and I am getting ready to purchase a new plane. 
I have narrowed down my decision to an SR22 or a new Cessna Skylane. Every time I finally decide on the Cirrus, I hear of another plane crash. It seems that an analysis based solely on accidents per hour flown, that the Cirrus may have a problem. What am I missing here? I know that people that fly into level 5 thunderstorms will have their problems no matter what they fly, but the last accident concerns me a bit. On a severe clear day, how can this type of crash happen? I REALLY like the SR22 and want someone (please) to make me understand why I shouldn’t have reservations about purchasing the Cirrus. Many thanks.
Mark
Hello everyone,
Thanks so much for all of your thoughtful responses. I feel much better now I never considered the issue of weight in the last accident, but it looks like that must me the most likely scenario.
Thanks again,
Mark
P.S. I am now a card carrying member of the COPA association, at your urging, and will hopefully soon be the proud (very proud) owner of an SR-22!!
In reply to:
Every time I finally decide on the Cirrus, I hear of another plane crash.
I am an EX 182 pilot… Sold my 182 last year and bought an SR22Â…. I believed then and still believe now that an SR22 is a safer plane than the 182Â… However, I always believed and still believe that a 182 is a safe planeÂ…
As a matter of fact, I wanted a faster plan for a long time… The only reason I did not buy one is I felt I needed to give up the safety of the 182 and I was not willing to do thatÂ…
I watched Cirrus since production started… Before buying I wanted to see that the plane is reliable and that the Chute actually workedÂ…
I think the plane has shown that it is reliable and that the chute saves livesÂ…. I think the added option of the chute does in fact make the SR22 a safer plane than the 182Â….
When I look at the accident reports, I have not found anything that would make me believe that there is a fundamental flaw in the Cirrus design that brings into question its viabilityÂ….
While the facts are still coming in on the recent accident you referenced, there is no reason to believe that the accident is related to a flaw in the planeÂ…. At the risk of someone asserting that I am drawing conclusions prematurelyÂ… in my opinion it has all the makings of an over gross departure stall accidentÂ… Before I get admonished for jumping to conclusions let me just say again that this is not a conclusion, just a scenario that in my mind (JohnÂ’s world) is likely… We will know when we knowÂ…
To your earlier point though, I would not generalize that because of this accident on a severe clear day that you should reconsider your purchase of the aircraftÂ… There is just no evidence that indicates a fundamental flaw in this airplane.
As an EX 182 pilot I think you will LOVE this plane… It gives you the speed that really makes a difference in your arrival time… Not to mention the climb performance that gets you up FASTÂ… And letÂ’s face it, the 182 is not the prettiest girl at the dance!!!
I would suggest all the bells and whistles (no I am not on commission!)Â…… I love having the traffic information… While there are occasional complaints about the arrival/departure TRAFFIC calls (and this is true usually because a plane on the ramp has the transponder on) I believe it is a device that truly improves safetyÂ……
Sounds to me based on your original question that safety is as important to you as it is to me.
John
In reply to:
Hello,
I REALLY like the SR22 and want someone (please) to make me understand why I shouldn’t have reservations about purchasing the Cirrus. Many thanks.
Mark
Because we say so! [:)]
It’s horrible when a plane goes down with loss of life, but it does happen and it
happens at a greater rate to all single engine PPL-operated planes than it does to
others. No model is immune.
Absolutely nothing whatsoever that has come out of any of the accident reports, or, in
this case, the preliminary accident data has pointed to any flaw at all in any of the
cirrus designs. They are very good planes and they are very safe planes.
Think as well about the two incidents which occured just over a week earlier. One
pilot with a full plane over the mountains in Canada at night in turbulent weather
and one experienced pilot in Florida caught in the clouds with failing instruments at
low altitude. They both pulled the Cirrus get-out-of-jail-free chute and everyone on
board lived. Had those things happened to a 182 things may well have been different,
and neither of those incidents had anything to do with the plane.
One thing you should consider if you are really serious is to join COPA, it’s the cheapest
thing you’ll ever do in aviation. On the member’s forum these accidents have been
discussed in depth and people, I think, feel more free to discuss things in great detail.
To be honest, I don’t even think there is a comparison. The SR20 beats any plane I’ve
ever flown or owned, the SR22 beats the SR20 (although I’ll never admit it). Cirrus has
designed and produced an incredible line of aircraft, as safe as any in the sky AND
with the added protection of a 'chute as an added backup when weather or other
factors would defeat any light plane.
You should have no fears at all.
In reply to:
Every time I finally decide on the Cirrus, I hear of another plane crash. It seems that an analysis based solely on accidents per hour flown, that the Cirrus may have a problem. What am I missing here? I know that people that fly into level 5 thunderstorms will have their problems no matter what they fly, but the last accident concerns me a bit. On a severe clear day, how can this type of crash happen? I REALLY like the SR22 and want someone (please) to make me understand why I shouldn’t have reservations about purchasing the Cirrus. Many thanks.
Mark
Mark, at the outset, as a biased and happy Cirrus owner, I support your having reservations about buying a Cirrus plane. It is an important decision and the accident history is a fact that impacts me, you and the entire general aviation community.
However, the statistics are not as dramatic as the news stories. I appreciate that you posted your question here, because COPA members are very, very aware of the challenge and very, very concerned to do something to improve safety in flying these amazing planes.
There have been 8 fatal accidents in 5 years in a fleet of 1,300 planes and AOPA states that the accident rate is comparable with Cessna 172 and 182 models:
FOUR DIE IN SOUTH CAROLINA CIRRUS CRASH
A Cirrus SR20 crashed during takeoff on April 19 from Greenwood County Airport in Greenwood, South Carolina, killing four Georgia men. Witnesses told the “Index-Journal” newspaper based in Greenwood that the aircraft reached 30 feet during takeoff, then dropped to 20 feet. As the aircraft approached a stand of trees, witnesses said, it climbed abruptly several hundred feet before banking left and losing altitude, crashing on a hillside. The aircraft was destroyed by fire. Although there have been four Cirrus accidents this year–two involving deployment of the rocket-launched parachute system, which saved the lives of five people–the safety record remains good. AOPA Air Safety Foundation statistics show the fatal accident rate is comparable to those of the Cessna 172 and 182. Although insurance rates for Cirrus Design aircraft were high a year ago, insurance officials report they have now dropped to normal levels.
What is certain is that 8 Cirrus have crashed with fatalities and 3 have survived a parachute deployment (CAPS).
As a non-member of the COPA forums, you miss the extensive discussion, debate and commitment to work to fix things. I will point you to the http://www.cirruspilots.org/public/cppp/schedule.html>Cirrus where refresher flight training and ground seminars improve our flying skills; the Critical Decision Making seminars, where we focus on the judgement chain and ways to use personal minimums to manage risks, and the COPA TAN (Transportation/Accommodation Network), where COPA members volunteer to provide transportation and assistance to COPA members who might face a Go/NoGo decision in our home towns.
Last night on the members forum, I posted some comments from analyzing those 8 fatal crashes, considering the differences with other competitive planes. 100% of all Cirrus planes had technically advanced features – GPS, autopilot and MFD. 7 of 8 crashes were on long cross-country trips. In 6 of 8 crashes, the pilot was not talking with ATC – no tower, no flight following, not IFR. 7 of 8 accident pilots were not recognized as members of this Internet forum. 5 of 8 accident pilots had low time-in-time, and it might be 8 of 8 had less than 100 hours TIT (speculation without solid data from accident reports).
These are challenging observations. And to me, they suggest that pilot proficiency is a crucial safety concern. Hence, COPA efforts that are focused on safety.
Mark, I would be happy to talk with you by telephone to discuss further. Cell phone is 619-920-2120 on west coast time.
Cheers
Rick
WHile I generally applaud the unbiased reporting of organizations like ANN there can be bias by omission. Only a fraction of accidents show up on the aviation web sites. CIrrus gets a lot of press because it is such an exciting plane. That doens’t mean there haven’t been a number of accidents. It is a fast plane that is deceptively easy to take long trips in. Look at the data on how many accidents have been low time pilots flying cross country trips.
If you are really considering a CIrrus then $50 for COPA membership will be the best prepurchase investment you could make. There s a LOT more info on the member’s forum. I haven’t seen anything close to COPA in terms of an active owner’s group and it is another good reason to consider a Cirrus.
In reply to:
Hello,
I am currently a Cessna 182 owner / driver and I am getting ready to purchase a new plane.I have narrowed down my decision to an SR22 or a new Cessna Skylane. Every time I finally decide on the Cirrus, I hear of another plane crash. It seems that an analysis based solely on accidents per hour flown, that the Cirrus may have a problem. What am I missing here? I know that people that fly into level 5 thunderstorms will have their problems no matter what they fly, but the last accident concerns me a bit. On a severe clear day, how can this type of crash happen? I REALLY like the SR22 and want someone (please) to make me understand why I shouldn’t have reservations about purchasing the Cirrus. Many thanks.
Mark
Read the article in the May issue of flying. There is an article by well known Cirrus hater and he admits that in the last three years Cirrus and Cessna have sold about the same number of planes and have had the same accident rate and there is only one difference in numbers of planes sold in the last 3 years. He is eating crow for some of the things he had said about Cirrus over the years. By the way do Join COPA I have learned a ton.
Due to the commerical nature of this post, it was removed at the request of Mike Radomsky.
Can we start a new thread. I’m tired of seeing “another Cirrus down” when, in fact, that is not the case.
In reply to:
A Cirrus SR20 crashed during takeoff on April 19 from Greenwood County Airport in Greenwood, South Carolina, killing four Georgia men. Witnesses told the “Index-Journal” newspaper based in Greenwood that the aircraft reached 30 feet during takeoff, then dropped to 20 feet. As the aircraft approached a stand of trees, witnesses said, it climbed abruptly several hundred feet before banking left and losing altitude, crashing on a hillside.
Rick: Thanks for your well researched and informative post.
On the little information available so far, this one looks like an over-gross takeoff. What is known so far is that there were 4 aboard, apparently 3 construction workers and the company-owner/pilot.
What is unknown is the amount of fuel aboard. There is not a single 4 place aircraft out there that is 4 passengers and full fuel, particularly 4 adult construction workers.
It also is reasonably clear to me that with 4 aboard and full fuel the plane is already over gross without regard to anything else carried.
I didn’t see it in this story, but I recall that there was a witness on the ground that thought the takeoff was unusual in that the pilot apparently accelerated, slowed, and then took off. Am I remembering this correctly?
With so little left of the aircraft, the only record of the amount of fuel carried would be receipts or fuel orders from an FBO.
I guess the message is that if you are overgross or otherwise not climbing properly and headed for the trees PULL THE CHUTE. At least there is a really good chance you will be around to explain your poor decision making.
Rick, thank for your post.
These kind of objective data should help all of us pilots…
Connection between “low time, no COPA members etc etc” could be studies and maybe to show attitude of some pilot, different from some other pilots…
I want to learn somethin every day and encrease my experience daily. I’m shure that one day I could need of some of these experiences.
COPA is doing an impressive job for who of the pilots that wants encrease is own skills.
Thank.
In reply to:
I guess the message is that if you are overgross or otherwise not climbing properly and headed for the trees PULL THE CHUTE.
Clearly a tough decision which has to be made in an instant. Pulling the chute at low altitude means further loss of control as a partially deployed chute comes out - and guarantees an accident. That’s a bitter pill.
Not pulling the chute risks having the rocket go off during the crash, lighting up the fuel splash.
Tough choice… Avoiding the chain leading up to the loss of control is the only acceptable option.
Great! Glad you posted your question. Best wishes with your decision . . . Fly safe whatever you decide.
Cheers
Rick
In reply to:
P.S. I am now a card carrying member of the COPA association, at your urging, and will hopefully soon be the proud (very proud) owner of an SR-22!!
Mark,
Welcome to The Fold!
Where can I get one of those cards? [;)]
Good luck with your new airplane - can’t wait to read your PIREPS. See you on “the other side”…
- Mike.
In reply to:
Connection between “low time, no COPA members etc etc” could be studies and maybe to show attitude of some pilot, different from some other pilots…
I want to learn somethin every day and encrease my experience daily. I’m shure that one day I could need of some of these experiences.
COPA is doing an impressive job for who of the pilots that wants encrease is own skills.
Maurizio,
I totally agree with you! I assume their are many Cirrus owners that because of their lifestyle just don’t have the time to gather all the valuable information available on the COPA WEB site.
There are others who might not care and believe they can along on their own.
I just signed up for a couple days with Luke Lysen one of the premire Cirrus instructors. I’m sure I will be a much better pilot because of the training he will provide. I would have never heard about him if it weren’t for COPA.
Ciao,
Walt
I second that…Moderator(s) please change the subject line for any future posts that mention these words if it is not the case. I don’t need any more sick feelings.
Brian Fowler SR20 #1393