SR20 VS 22

Guest Discussion
1

accident rate discussions aside (they haven’t diminished my enthusiasm for purchasing a plane:), would like to query the sr20 owners as to their satisfaction with the 20 on long trips. purchased my 20 position right at the time that the conversion offer was made, and it was really too early in the game for me to consider the 22. the improved capabilities of the 22 are impressive - the most significant of which is speed. nevertheless, long trips are a rather small portion of my flying, and its hard to justify the 22 on that alone.

any observations from 20 drivers who make long trips? at the end of the trip, do you long for the 22, or were you just as happy spending more time cruising in your 20…

2

Gary,

The longest leg I’ve flown in our SR20 was 4.2 hours — the longest I’ve ever sat at the controls of a GA airplane — and at the end of it I was still so relaxed and comfortable that I couldn’t believe it had been that long!

I was perfectly happy to have spent a little more time in the SR20 — and to have spent substantially less dough doing it than I would have in an SR22.

Cheers,
Roger

3

In reply to:

accident rate discussions aside (they haven’t diminished my enthusiasm for purchasing a plane:), would like to query the sr20 owners as to their satisfaction with the 20 on long trips. purchased my 20 position right at the time that the conversion offer was made, and it was really too early in the game for me to consider the 22. the improved capabilities of the 22 are impressive - the most significant of which is speed. nevertheless, long trips are a rather small portion of my flying, and its hard to justify the 22 on that alone.

any observations from 20 drivers who make long trips? at the end of the trip, do you long for the 22, or were you just as happy spending more time cruising in your 20…

Gary,
I have observations - but I don’t think they’ll be of much help.
I have flown about 440 hours in my '20 in just over a year now; probably 2/3 of that on longish to unquestionably long trips. Longest trip to date was 5.1 hours, and still landed with 12 gallons in the tanks - thanks to LOP flight and a beautifully efficient machine. LOVE my '20. Would prefer to have a '22 much of the time, especially in the climb, but certainly not when I pull up to the gas pump. Have had to dance around payload concerns too often, so again a 22 would be great. Also for diminishing the concerns over icing (quicker escape from inadvertant encounters), and from what I hear, less concern with overheating in Summer. So… maybe I’ll move to a '22. Lots more $$, not just upfront, but each time I fly. But I know I’ll only live once.

  • Mike.

PS - I plan to live forever. So far, so good. [:)]

4

I think another entry in the decision table is whether you do a lot of flying in the mountainous west, where for terrain, wx, and routing you may find it very useful to efficiently climb to and maintain flight in the mid-teens. Reports are that the SR22 will still give you a 1000 FPM climb rate at 10,000 feet with moderate loads.

5

We have made two trips at 8.5 hrs each over the mountains from ND to Palm Springs. Also one trip the southern way at 9+ hours. Very comfortable and less fatigue than with the Cardinal. Yes I would like faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money. Trouble is the SR22 wouldn’t fit in my hangar!

6

Although it may come as a surprise, cruise speed probably matters least, unless it is a big part of your personal subjective “satisfaction index” for owning a personal airplane. It would make at most 10-15 minutes’ difference on any single leg of a trip–usually less–and most of our trips are likely to be single leg anyway. I recently traded good-natured barbs with a Columbia 400 depositor who jibed that “If we both flew from Phoenix to San Diego, I would be at Anthony’s with two scotches in me and dinner being served before you even landed.” My response was along the lines of, “At my 150 kt and your 240 kt, it’s true you would likely beat me there by 45’ to 1 hour. But in the last analysis, what can I say about a man who would rather drink for an hour than fly?”

The differences that matter in real-world experience are payload, rate of climb, and density altitude performance. If you’re going to fly regularly with 3-4 folks on board, and/or operate out of airports where summer’s high density altitudes are a concern–say, west of Denver–then the SR22 is the choice. The SR20 is a great plane but no matter how advanced the technology, 3000 lb is a lot of mass for 200 hp to haul off the runway and climb skyward when it’s 85 degrees, the airport elevation is 4500 feet, and you’re wondering about those hills a mile off the departure end.

7

Gary, for what it is worth, I held a 20 position for over a year and upgraded to the 22. {Delivery is slated for July} My rational was not speed as much as it useful load. With the 20 you can, with full fuel put only 3 adults on board, and only if one of the people would be less than 150lb.{assuming 2 adults at 200lbs each} That left no room for luggage per say and a realistic range of about 600nm, maybe. The 22 allows, 2 moderately over weight American couples, some bags, full fuel and a range of 700 or so nm. I probably would have switched without the speed increase. MIke

8

I have flown my 20 cross country one 4.5 hours 40 min on ground then another 5.25 hours and it was like i could do more but i was there I have a20 by the way. I would think 50 % of most of our flying is alone and keeping curent for IFR. then for me 200 to 300 miles is most of my trips. Then every so often along trip and then I would like yo have the speed and range. I never go with more than My wife on these long trips. Mosty I go alone now in the mountins the extar lift would help. Then there is the insurance to concider. It all realy comes down to your own type of flying. For me now the 20 works. I often wonder we all love to fly then we cant get there fast enough.Then its over go figure. From Don N705DM

9

<The 22 allows, 2 moderately over weight American couples, some bags, full fuel and a range of 700 or so nm. I probably would have switched without the speed increase. MIke>

The max gross of a 22 as advertised is 3450 lbs. Assuming the advertised empty weight is accurate (?) The advertised useful load is 1150 lbs. Full fuel weighs 486, leaving 664 payload. Subtract 2 couples bags of 64 lbs (not my wife) and human cargo is 600 lbs. 300 lb couples are probably the exception rather than the rule. Of course you could off-load fuel, but the point is the 22 is still not a 4 person + bags + full fuel airplane

10

Define ‘moderately overweight’ for me Mike!!!

JB

11

“but the point is the 22 is still not a 4 person + bags + full fuel airplane”

Just need to be careful with this standard.

If Cirrus reduced the size of the tanks to 60 gals (like the 20), then they would have made it a 4 person + bags + full fuel airplane. Major accomplishment!

The point being, in comparing aircraft, a better standard would be “4 person + bags + x km + IFR reserves” airplane.

Bob

12

Gary: you asked for '2-0 owner to respond, but I figured I’d add a little perspective from a happy '22 owner.

the speed difference is probably about 25 knots. I tend to fly LOP which usually gives me TAS between 160 and 170 ktas. I do so on around 11.5 - 12.5 GPH. So what I am getting is a few knots faster than an SR20 at about 1-2 GPH more. No big difference at the end of a 3 hour trip.

There are some SR22 drivers who fly Ba*** to the wall and get 175-185 KTAS at I would guess 18 GPH. On the same 500 mile flight, they may arrive 10 -20 minutes earlier and pay for it with about 15 gallons of gas.

IMHO, the REAl advantages of the SR22:

Rate of climb. I typically make a stabilized climb at about 120 - 140 kts with a 1,000 fpm through 8 - 10,000’. If it is cold or I am way under gross, 1,500-1,600 fpm is easy. The rate of climb is important to me as it gets me to the crusie altitude a lot sooner.

Engine Temps: The new cowling in the '20 is supposed to fix this, but I have never had temp problems in cruise or climb regardless of the OAT in my '22.

Useful load: Again, I can’t speak accurately about the new SR20’s, but I can get 670 lbs of payload (full fuel) and more if I 'd like to leave fuel behind. With only 70 (11 under max) gallons in the tanks, I am comfortable planning a 500 mile trip with tons (well over 1 hour) reserve. With 70 gallons in the tanks, I can carry almost 740 lbs in the cockpit which is 2 hefty, 200 lb men, two average women, 135 (I shouldn’t have said that!) 10 lbs. of flight gear and 60 lbs of luggage. Hard to beat without a Cherokee 6 or Cessna 206!

Power: Yes, I DO like Tim Allen, but the benefit is performance on go arounds, missed approaches and punching through a thin layer of clouds when icing may be present.

Which is important to me? The Useful Load is by far the most important, but the power and climb are a lot of fun!
You need to determine what your typical flight needs are and compare it to your budget. For me, the '22 was a stretch, but I have not minded eating only two meals a week!

Marty

13

“define moderately over weight” No way Dude, I am not going there. Suffice to say, that according to the Body Mass Index charts in my office unless you are built like a Swiss ski jumper {6’2" 135lbs with your flying suit and skis on} you are obese.

14

Wow! I can’t believe I did it! I just gave my wife (and me) a great Valentine’s Day gift. I canceled the 20 we had on order today and moved up to the 22. The sirens song of this site was just to strong, and I was out of sealing wax. This purchase will be something we will live with for a very long time. We felt all factors said it was the way to go. I sure hope we are right.

One of the real shocks in the order process was moving from May 2003 to Oct. 2002 delivery dates. Now or goal for the next eight months is for my wife to finish her instrument and me to get a commercial.

Regards, Doug

15

What about 6’, 145?

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At 6’ and 145#, it’s time to dine!

Pete

17

At 6’ 145 You could qualify for the swiss ski jump team! But Jim, I have seen you jump, and you are no Olif Knestenison!! MIke

18

I eat what I want, when I want and how much I want! My doctor keeps tellming that my wife needs to fatten me up, and she tries!!!

JB

19

The precise purpose of my “capabilities” spreadsheet, available on this web site!

20

the average bladder in most couples is ready for a quick descend and ‘in and out’ restroom stop after 2 hours or so…if you run 12 gals. LOP…2.5 hours plus ifr reserves is 39 gals. at takeoff…now your a real four placer AFTER dinner!
Don