Sandle

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

Don,

My bet is you will get most, if not all of your investment back when you sell the plane. Plus, you will enjoy all of the cool features and skip all of the problems with the Century unit that has received so much attention on this forum. I can’t remember hearing much negative about the Sandel unit.

Greg

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

Don- hold off on it.take the 4k and hold on a bit.Dont believe monday either.You really probably have another month or so.Your glass has not even been cut yet for your plane.Do lots of research then decide.Lots of it.You tell them you will decide when your bird is ready for the drilling or avionics.Not when its still a promise.And.tell them you want your plane made with 3M glass and not that cheap BRYTE stuff we use now.It lays up bad.Lots of pourosity.But it’s cheap and thats what they want.The or most of the earlier SR-XX’s used 3M and it was great glass.We had to call BRYTE in to figure out why their stuff was not working well. -j

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

Don,

I have been flying both Sandel and DG equipped Archer IIIs for my instrument training. On balance, I think the Sandel is a very good value. I find that it improves my situational awareness significantly on approaches, especially more complicated procedures such as those involving a DME arc. The Sandel also simplifies the scan during other high workload times such as the missed approach. I can certainly fly IMC without it, but given the total cost of the new aircraft, I think the eHSI adds a lot of functionality for very little additional cost.

George

SR22 #95

If you fly a lot of IFR then get the Sandel. Interfaced to the 430 it will show you HOLDING PATTERNS etc. That way you can keep your eyes in front of you instead of glancing over at the 430’s.

You will also undoubtedly get your money back, as SANDEL keeps improving what it can put on the screen, whereas a standard HSI can never change that.

Imagine some day having a SANDEL that will highlight a conflict in traffic or terrain right there in front of your eyes…

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

Don, Just do it if you can afford it. Do the stormscope also. You will not regret it. After using the Sandle for 85 Hours, and a stormscope for 1,300 horrs, I can tell you they are worth every penny.
Denis

Don,

The August 2001 issue of Aviation Consumer magazine has a full review of HSI equipment, including Sandel. You may wish to read it and see how it affects your thinking.

The magazine also has a sidebar that even raises the question of whether or not an investment today in an HSI makes sense, their point being that HSIs are really based upon older navigation systems, and that within the next 3 - 5 years PFDs will become available that will supplant the virtues (of which there are many) of the HSI.

Good luck,

Pete

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

There are other great advatages to the Sandel too:

  1. Slew mode. This will automatically move the course pointer to the next waypoint as given to it by the Garmin. You don’t need to twist the knob. This helps not only in reducing workload, but also will easily allow the autopilot fly the course (if you have a B model instead of a C model).

  2. RMI pointers. The device has 2 RMI pointers which look helpful to set to the FAF, outer marker, or whatever so during a highworkload IMC you easily see that waypoint passage. This is helpful if you want to “declutter” your Sandel and not show the map during these high workload types of approaches.

  3. If you have a B model SR20 you have an electric HSI instead of the vacuum. (may or may not be an advantage in your eyes.)

  4. Single screen showing everything you need for the approach. No need to look at other instruments.

  5. Glideslope is directly on the face of the instrument not in a small window to the side.

  6. Color coding of pointer sources. The CDI is Cyan when coupled to the GPS and green when coupled to the VOR. Something that is in your face and easy to interpret versus the small letters on the Garmin.

I could go on. Needless to say, we’ve opted for a Sandel in our SR20.

Our one worry was the potential for sensory overload. The Garmins, Arnav and Sandel. However, we’ve decided to keep learn only a couple of features of the Sandel at the beginning and “grow” into it. For example, how to turn the map on and off, change the range, change the nav source, enable the autoslew are the big items we will be using right away. We’ll be spending most of our energy with the Garmin.

Derek

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

DON
Obviously you must of gotten the new sr20

option list.Im #259 and I havent seen it yet.

As I remember the eHSI was not a posibility in
the ‘B’ package.Im thinking of lowering my
standard like my comrads from Santa Barbra

and going with the ‘A’ package and pocket some
money for a convertable to park next to my

Cirrus (I live in an airpark).Any chance of
getting the highlights of changes to the options

available for the SR20a ? dan

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215
Don,
The August Aviation Consumer has an article “HSI Flyoff”. Their cover-page summary says “If dollars don’t matter, the Sandel is nice; otherwise, we like Century’s NSD360”.

In the article, they talk about the NSD1000 favorably, too, and mention Cirrus’ choice of the unit; but they also point out the high failure rate so far.

  • Mike.

Jeff,

When did Cirrus make the transition?

Does mine have Bryte or 3M?

Is the Bryte glass lighter?

Paul

Jeff,

When did Cirrus make the transition?

Does mine have Bryte or 3M?

Is the Bryte glass lighter?

Paul,

 I started to see bryte about 8 months ago or so.Now it is all we use.I lays up bad which causes many in house repairs. i.e laying more glass inside to renforce the pourosity.some of it just goes to scrap.The move to bryte was its cheaper than 3m.3M always laid up nice and came out beautiful.The weight is the same but the more repairs the more added weight to the plane.all birds now are bryte. -j

Don,

The August 2001 issue of Aviation Consumer magazine has a full review of HSI equipment, including Sandel. You may wish to read it and see how it affects your thinking.

The magazine also has a sidebar that even raises the question of whether or not an investment today in an HSI makes sense, their point being that HSIs are really based upon older navigation systems, and that within the next 3 - 5 years PFDs will become available that will supplant the virtues (of which there are many) of the HSI.

Good luck,

Pete

Since Cirri are equipped with HSIs anyway, you might as well have the Sandel, IMHO. However I agree with Pete that an HSI is very nearly an antiquated piece of instrumentation that does not provide value for the money in enhanced situational awareness or navigational capability, compared to what’s already there in the GNS430 and MFD.

If one must have an HSI, one can buy a Garmin 195 or 295, have it interfaced with the 430 (easy) and use its HSI page, all for 10% or less of the cost of a panel-mount HSI!

Unfortunately, Don has to make his decision now. Agreed, the PFD approach is preferred, but to upgrade to a PFD 2-3 years from now is going to cost many times more than the $4000 for the Sandel (for an existing airplane) since you will get no credit for your used instruments. Also, I give the Sandel unit credit for being much more than just an HSI. There are too many other capabilities to list here, plus upgradeability. If you did decide to upgrade to the PFD arrangement, I’d bet you would get a higher return on your original investment from the Sandel than any other instrument in the panel, plus get the benefits in the meantime.

Don, I’ll bet you never thought such a simple question would illicit such a multitude of responses.

IMHO,

Greg

Don,

The August 2001 issue of Aviation Consumer magazine has a full review of HSI equipment, including Sandel. You may wish to read it and see how it affects your thinking.

The magazine also has a sidebar that even raises the question of whether or not an investment today in an HSI makes sense, their point being that HSIs are really based upon older navigation systems, and that within the next 3 - 5 years PFDs will become available that will supplant the virtues (of which there are many) of the HSI.

Good luck,

Pete

I have to make a choice on the sandle.By Monday is it worth the 4,000 extra. I do fly a lot of ifr. I sopose its an envestment.And any thoughts on the skywatch.Thanks from Don #215

Kevin Moore wrote:

Since Cirri are equipped with HSIs anyway…
Well, all of them except the “A” configuration SR20 (as ordered by cheapskates such as Glenn B. and yours truly).
If one must have an HSI, one can buy a Garmin 195 or 295, have it interfaced with the 430 (easy) and use its HSI page, all for 10% or less of the cost of a panel-mount HSI!
An excellent suggestion! Kevin is too modest to point out that he has a very cool Garmin 195 installation of just this sort in his super-duper Cessna 182/260SE.

Kevin, have you any suggestions where and how one might mount a 195 or 295 in the no-yoke cockpit of an SR2x?

Cheers,

Roger

If one must have an HSI, one can buy a Garmin 195 or 295, have it interfaced with the 430 (easy) and use its HSI page, all for 10% or less of the cost of a panel-mount HSI!

While the 195 my give you track while it is able to receive enough satellites, it wonÂ’t give you magnetic heading. It wonÂ’t give you glide slope either. It canÂ’t be used to set the autopilot heading or course. It wonÂ’t provide deviation from a navaid that can control the autopilot. In fact it wonÂ’t provide deviation from a navaid that is acceptable to the FAA as a primary manual navigation device.

If one must have an HSI, one can buy a Garmin 195 or 295, have it interfaced with the 430 (easy) and use its HSI page, all for 10% or less of the cost of a panel-mount HSI!

While the 195 my give you track while it is able to receive enough satellites, it wonÂ’t give you magnetic heading. It wonÂ’t give you glide slope either. It canÂ’t be used to set the autopilot heading or course. It wonÂ’t provide deviation from a navaid that can control the autopilot. In fact it wonÂ’t provide deviation from a navaid that is acceptable to the FAA as a primary manual navigation device.

You’re right–but the GNS430 with a conventional GI106 indicator with glideslope already does all of that anyway; and with GPSS it can do it that much better.

You’re right–but the GNS430 with a conventional GI106 indicator with glideslope already does all of that anyway; and with GPSS it can do it that much better.

Explain to me again where magnetic heading comes from.

You’re right–but the GNS430 with a conventional GI106 indicator with glideslope already does all of that anyway; and with GPSS it can do it that much better.

Explain to me again where magnetic heading comes from.

Your DG of course, which you have to have in the panel. Together with the GI106, the aggregate cost is a tiny fraction of an HSI. My point is not that an HSI doesn’t wrap their two functions into one–it does–but that in this day of GPS with the GNS430’s and your MFD’s capabilities, HSI is an expensive to buy and expensive to fix dinosaur that does not provide value and utility commensurate with its cost.

FWIW, I agree with the thinking of Kevin’s several posts.

I’m presently planning the panel for a 260se/stol for myself, and have - of sound mind and body - decided to forego the HSI for precisely those reasons.

Pete

You’re right–but the GNS430 with a conventional GI106 indicator with glideslope already does all of that anyway; and with GPSS it can do it that much better.

Explain to me again where magnetic heading comes from.

Your DG of course, which you have to have in the panel. Together with the GI106, the aggregate cost is a tiny fraction of an HSI. My point is not that an HSI doesn’t wrap their two functions into one–it does–but that in this day of GPS with the GNS430’s and your MFD’s capabilities, HSI is an expensive to buy and expensive to fix dinosaur that does not provide value and utility commensurate with its cost.