Reminder: a little civility please...

Folks,

I’m fairly distressed about the personal attacks made on (the various) “jeff” posters et al.

Let’s just keep to the facts and cut the insults, eh?

Some of the members of this owners’ forum are starting to get WAY too paranoid for this forum’s own good.

Do we need to be labeled as reactionary by the rest of the aviation community?

Paul

p.s. I still hate the rudder trim, but I’m beginning to mellow on the ICDS2000. If the damn thing just had an integrated engine monitor and tcas display, I might even stop bitching about it…

Well said Paul,

One benefit of a forum like this is to push forward the leading edge of our thinking. In a kind of mutation-and-selection way, the different ideas that survive help us find new successful directions. Things like CAPS are born. And a toilet rug for your nose gear, that doesn’t totally suck.

A lot of insight comes from probing edges of our knowledge. So it was disappointing to see a volley of emotions when some poor guy asked about the effect of icing on the airframe. Data is always good, even data about dangerous things. Even data about things we don’t like to hear … production issues etc.

But alas this is the Internet, the global CB radio of the digital era. There will always be those who type faster than they can think, who have a personal axe to grind, or can’t tolerate diverse views. But I second your motion: There is no room for personal attacks from any of us who care about the forum.

Now for my disturbing, reaction-provoking comment of the day:

A recent post reported an SR20 at 10,000 feet using 11 GPH giving 150 KTAS. If I assume the temperature was about 15 degrees C below standard (equals minus 20 degrees C), then from the Columbia 300 POH, seeking 150 KTAS at 10,000 feet, -20 degrees C you get:

10.0 GPH. (2500RPM, 16.7inches, 53% power, lean of peak mixture). I hope to test this sometime soon with the Columbia demonstrator in the Netherlands.

I wonder if some brave soul with Gamijectors can find a way to safely reclaim the wasted gallon in the SR20.

Competition is good - both planes and companies are doing us a duty by advancing the state of general aviation.

Steve

Paul, thanks, “be civil” is good advice. If I could, let me augment it with “be honest.”

I think the concepts are related. Civility involves not sounding rude or disrespectful to other people. But in a forum like this civility also means showing respect for other readers by giving them a fair idea of the context of comments and information. A post saying “I think the parachute is a terrible mistake” would mean quite different things, depending on whether it came from:
(a) Alan Klapmeier, from whom it would represent a complete reversal of thought;
(b) Lance Neibauer or someone else in the business, from whom it would be a reassertion of long-held views;

© a FAA inspector, from whom it might indicate a change of policy;

(d) an ultra-light veteran, from whom it might reflect the voice of experience;

(e) a Cirrus engineer, from whom it might reflect doubts about technical feasibility;

(f)-(z) other people with other backgrounds.

If someone who was, say, just a customer pretended to be an FAA inspector or a Cirrus engineer, the information would have quite misleading connotations.

So part of being civil in a forum is giving reasonable context for the background of your views. In practice, here is what I think the “be honest” codicil to the “be civil” mandate would mean:

  1. If you are connected with one of the parties under discussion, you should reveal that.

  2. If you have derogatory information to present about a person, product, or company, you should make yourself traceable. It is incivil in a deep sense to damage someone’s personal reputation or commercial prospects, from behind the shield of anonymity or a false name. Let me once again disclose my own bias: I’m a reporter, and reporters of course recognize the importance of anonymous sources in special cases. But when it comes time to publish a story with damaging information, the reporter and the publication have to put their own identities squarely on the line behind the accusation.

  3. Don’t invent information. This would seem obvious, but one reason for the recent furore is apparently out-of-whole-cloth allegations, for instance about a firing.

So how about this as a “be civil” package deal:

  • take a friendly and respectful tone;

  • disclose relevant connections or biases; and

  • if you’re criticizing a person or product, let people know who you are.

Jim Fallows

Berkeley, Ca.

A recent post reported an SR20 at 10,000 feet using 11 GPH giving 150 KTAS.

It may have done, but if you’re going to quote book figures, the book says 2500RPM, 64% power, 9.3gph and 135KTAS at 10,000ft and ISA. ISA-30 still gets you 151KTAS and 9.3gph.

My experience in the SR20 suggests that the book fuel flow figures for specified power settings are accurate, but proper leaning is essential (and, like all avgas engines, fiddly.)

TAS numbers do tend to be a little below book, but at 75% power it’s routine to see 155KTAS.

Who do you report for? Nobody got fired.I would like to talk to you. There are 3 or 4 jeff’s.I don’t think freedom of speech is illegal is it?One must take the words and either toss them or give them thought.The real picture is what counts.

Jim,

Well said. I agree 100%. In amateur radio, there are regulations against anonymous heckling. The FCC requires radio stations - including individual radio stations - to identify regularly and truthfully. Of course, Internet venues don’t use “scarce” public airwaves and so the FCC isn’t involved. However, it makes a lot of sense to heavily discount information that is completely anonymous (i.e., not at least vetted by a trusted and known source)

George Savage, K6TSR, SR22 #95 (a real person living in Portola Valley, CA)

Paul, thanks, “be civil” is good advice. If I could, let me augment it with “be honest.”

I think the concepts are related. Civility involves not sounding rude or disrespectful to other people. But in a forum like this civility also means showing respect for other readers by giving them a fair idea of the context of comments and information. A post saying “I think the parachute is a terrible mistake” would mean quite different things, depending on whether it came from:
(a) Alan Klapmeier, from whom it would represent a complete reversal of thought;
(b) Lance Neibauer or someone else in the business, from whom it would be a reassertion of long-held views;

© a FAA inspector, from whom it might indicate a change of policy;

(d) an ultra-light veteran, from whom it might reflect the voice of experience;

(e) a Cirrus engineer, from whom it might reflect doubts about technical feasibility;

(f)-(z) other people with other backgrounds.

If someone who was, say, just a customer pretended to be an FAA inspector or a Cirrus engineer, the information would have quite misleading connotations.

So part of being civil in a forum is giving reasonable context for the background of your views. In practice, here is what I think the “be honest” codicil to the “be civil” mandate would mean:

  1. If you are connected with one of the parties under discussion, you should reveal that.
  1. If you have derogatory information to present about a person, product, or company, you should make yourself traceable. It is incivil in a deep sense to damage someone’s personal reputation or commercial prospects, from behind the shield of anonymity or a false name. Let me once again disclose my own bias: I’m a reporter, and reporters of course recognize the importance of anonymous sources in special cases. But when it comes time to publish a story with damaging information, the reporter and the publication have to put their own identities squarely on the line behind the accusation.
  1. Don’t invent information. This would seem obvious, but one reason for the recent furore is apparently out-of-whole-cloth allegations, for instance about a firing.

So how about this as a “be civil” package deal:

  • take a friendly and respectful tone;
  • disclose relevant connections or biases; and
  • if you’re criticizing a person or product, let people know who you are.

Jim Fallows

Berkeley, Ca.