As a frequent flyer to Marsh, interested in any inside info on the very sad tragedy…if anybody has more info on the cause, would appreciate an update…
The Pilot and passengers were seen arguing about all the baggage before they left Marsh Harbour. The Pilot was intimidated and allowed the overloaded condition, according to a witness. Sad.
I too have flown in and out of Marsh Harbor as well as the other Bahamian Islands. With the thought of overgross weight AND it’s HOT there in August would be enough to prescribe the disaster and if there was engine out, the plane is suppose to be able to fly, but not with the weight and high temps. When will we from others mistakes?
As a frequent flyer to Marsh, interested in any inside info on the very sad tragedy…if anybody has more info on the cause, would appreciate an update…
Not quite on point, but . . . since we have so many frequent flyers to Marsh (incl myself), has anyone ever thought about putting an older (but nice), live-aboard boat (sleeps 4 or so) in one of the marinas and renting it out to pilots? Actually, it doesn’t even have to run much at all. It could be towed there. Someone mentioned to me one time that a several pilots could share in the cost to buy and maintain, and even rent it out occasionally. Is this a reasonable possibility?
As a frequent flyer to Marsh, interested in any inside info on the very sad tragedy…if anybody has more info on the cause, would appreciate an update…
The Pilot and passengers were seen arguing about all the baggage before they left Marsh Harbour. The Pilot was intimidated and allowed the overloaded condition, according to a witness. Sad.
PILOT’S WARNING IGNORED
By MALCOLM BALFOUR, PAULA FROELICH and BRAD HUNTER
SHOCKING NEWS:
“I am not believing this,” Mecca Bey (left) said yesterday, when she and cousin Heaven Grace heard about singer Aaliyah’s death.
- NYP: Tamara Beckwith
August 27, 2001 – A heated argument about the weight of equipment erupted between the pilot of the plane carrying singer Aaliyah and her video crew minutes before their tragic Bahamas crash, The Post has learned.
The pilot, who thought the plane was being dangerously overloaded, gave in, according to veteran Bahamian charter pilot Lewis Key, who said he overheard the dispute just before the plane took off and then crashed, killing all aboard.
"With nine people and all the camera and sound equipment they were loading, the pilot kept saying, ‘There’s too much weight for a safe flight to Opa-Locka [Airport in Miami],’ " Key told The Post.
“He tried to convince them the plane was overloaded, but they insisted they had chartered the plane and they had to be in Miami Saturday night.”
The crash occurred Saturday evening, seconds after the twin-engine Cessna 402 took off from Marsh Harbour airport on Abaco Island. Grammy-nominated Aaliyah, 22 - who was born in Brooklyn and lived on Central Park West - was killed instantly.
Six others died at the scene, and two died in hospitals.
Another possible cause of the tragedy, Keys said, could have been engine failure.
Keys said the pilot had trouble getting one of the engines started, adding, "Several people have said they lost an engine on takeoff.
“But I guess the only people who know that for sure were on the plane - and they’re all gone.”
Witness George Thomas said the plane slowly climbed to about 50 feet when it veered to the left, plummeted nose-first into a swamp and burst into flames. …
I’m don’t have a multiengine rating, but my understanding is that maintaining VMCSE must be done precisely, and the failure to do so particularly at take off is the cause of many loss of control accidents. Add over gross density altitude and an engine failure, and you are in a corner with no way out. The aircraft probably never got to VMCSE, considering the reported proximity of the crash site to the runway.
The Pilot and passengers were seen arguing about all the baggage before they left Marsh Harbour. The Pilot was intimidated and allowed the overloaded condition, according to a witness. Sad.
PILOT’S WARNING IGNORED
By MALCOLM BALFOUR, PAULA FROELICH and BRAD HUNTER
SHOCKING NEWS:
“I am not believing this,” Mecca Bey (left) said yesterday, when she and cousin Heaven Grace heard about singer Aaliyah’s death.
- NYP: Tamara Beckwith
August 27, 2001 – A heated argument about the weight of equipment erupted between the pilot of the plane carrying singer Aaliyah and her video crew minutes before their tragic Bahamas crash, The Post has learned.
The pilot, who thought the plane was being dangerously overloaded, gave in, according to veteran Bahamian charter pilot Lewis Key, who said he overheard the dispute just before the plane took off and then crashed, killing all aboard.
"With nine people and all the camera and sound equipment they were loading, the pilot kept saying, ‘There’s too much weight for a safe flight to Opa-Locka [Airport in Miami],’ " Key told The Post.
“He tried to convince them the plane was overloaded, but they insisted they had chartered the plane and they had to be in Miami Saturday night.”
The crash occurred Saturday evening, seconds after the twin-engine Cessna 402 took off from Marsh Harbour airport on Abaco Island. Grammy-nominated Aaliyah, 22 - who was born in Brooklyn and lived on Central Park West - was killed instantly.
Six others died at the scene, and two died in hospitals.
Another possible cause of the tragedy, Keys said, could have been engine failure.
Keys said the pilot had trouble getting one of the engines started, adding, "Several people have said they lost an engine on takeoff.
“But I guess the only people who know that for sure were on the plane - and they’re all gone.”
Witness George Thomas said the plane slowly climbed to about 50 feet when it veered to the left, plummeted nose-first into a swamp and burst into flames. …
There are two considerations in multiengine flying when one engine quits. One is control and the other is performance. Control is the ability to counter the adverse yaw with rudder and depends on being above VMC. Below VMC there is not enough rudder authority to keep the plane straight. Most multi engine pilots will not lift off until they reach VMC plus a buffer of 5 kts or so (this is often called SSE - safe single engine speed).
Perfromance is the other consideration. The single engine rate of climb in most piston twins is about 2-300 fpm. This is at gross weight and the best single engine rate of climb speed for that weight and at sea level and 59 degrees F (standard day). If you are over gross the single engine rate of climb will drop significantly. High density altitude also eats into the single engine performance. A careful pilot will check the single engine rate of climb for his conditions and if it is not over a given rate will either postpone the departure, readjust the load or accept that if one fails then the only thing to do is close the throttles and land straight ahead.
With both engines running most twins will climb fairly well (albeit illegally) with both engines going as they have pretty good climb rates at gross with both engines. But, and it’s a big but, many overweight aircraft are not only overweight but out of CG limits and this can make the aircraft uncontrollable. An engine out above gross and out of CG is a sure way to have an accident.
If the news reports about this accident prove correct it is yet another example of a pilot abdicating his responsibilities as Pilot In Command.
While most of this post doesn’t have much to do with our Cirri, the last paragraph is something all of us need to take very seriously.
Jerry Seckler SR22 N1970
I’m don’t have a multiengine rating, but my understanding is that maintaining VMCSE must be done precisely, and the failure to do so particularly at take off is the cause of many loss of control accidents. Add over gross density altitude and an engine failure, and you are in a corner with no way out. The aircraft probably never got to VMCSE, considering the reported proximity of the crash site to the runway.
The Pilot and passengers were seen arguing about all the baggage before they left Marsh Harbour. The Pilot was intimidated and allowed the overloaded condition, according to a witness. Sad.
PILOT’S WARNING IGNORED
By MALCOLM BALFOUR, PAULA FROELICH and BRAD HUNTER
SHOCKING NEWS:
“I am not believing this,” Mecca Bey (left) said yesterday, when she and cousin Heaven Grace heard about singer Aaliyah’s death.
- NYP: Tamara Beckwith
August 27, 2001 – A heated argument about the weight of equipment erupted between the pilot of the plane carrying singer Aaliyah and her video crew minutes before their tragic Bahamas crash, The Post has learned.
The pilot, who thought the plane was being dangerously overloaded, gave in, according to veteran Bahamian charter pilot Lewis Key, who said he overheard the dispute just before the plane took off and then crashed, killing all aboard.
"With nine people and all the camera and sound equipment they were loading, the pilot kept saying, ‘There’s too much weight for a safe flight to Opa-Locka [Airport in Miami],’ " Key told The Post.
“He tried to convince them the plane was overloaded, but they insisted they had chartered the plane and they had to be in Miami Saturday night.”
The crash occurred Saturday evening, seconds after the twin-engine Cessna 402 took off from Marsh Harbour airport on Abaco Island. Grammy-nominated Aaliyah, 22 - who was born in Brooklyn and lived on Central Park West - was killed instantly.
Six others died at the scene, and two died in hospitals.
Another possible cause of the tragedy, Keys said, could have been engine failure.
Keys said the pilot had trouble getting one of the engines started, adding, "Several people have said they lost an engine on takeoff.
“But I guess the only people who know that for sure were on the plane - and they’re all gone.”
Witness George Thomas said the plane slowly climbed to about 50 feet when it veered to the left, plummeted nose-first into a swamp and burst into flames. …
Check your Used Aircraft Guide. The 402B is a lackluster performer on one engine when everything is perfect. The author notes that if anyone knew the one-engine performance of this airplane, they probably wouldn’t volunteer as a passenger. And, that’s when it isn’t overloaded! What’s that old saying? “With one engine out, follow the other engine to find the accident site.”
There are two considerations in multiengine flying when one engine quits. One is control and the other is performance. Control is the ability to counter the adverse yaw with rudder and depends on being above VMC. Below VMC there is not enough rudder authority to keep the plane straight. Most multi engine pilots will not lift off until they reach VMC plus a buffer of 5 kts or so (this is often called SSE - safe single engine speed).
Perfromance is the other consideration. The single engine rate of climb in most piston twins is about 2-300 fpm. This is at gross weight and the best single engine rate of climb speed for that weight and at sea level and 59 degrees F (standard day). If you are over gross the single engine rate of climb will drop significantly. High density altitude also eats into the single engine performance. A careful pilot will check the single engine rate of climb for his conditions and if it is not over a given rate will either postpone the departure, readjust the load or accept that if one fails then the only thing to do is close the throttles and land straight ahead.
With both engines running most twins will climb fairly well (albeit illegally) with both engines going as they have pretty good climb rates at gross with both engines. But, and it’s a big but, many overweight aircraft are not only overweight but out of CG limits and this can make the aircraft uncontrollable. An engine out above gross and out of CG is a sure way to have an accident.
If the news reports about this accident prove correct it is yet another example of a pilot abdicating his responsibilities as Pilot In Command.
While most of this post doesn’t have much to do with our Cirri, the last paragraph is something all of us need to take very seriously.
Jerry Seckler SR22 N1970
I’m don’t have a multiengine rating, but my understanding is that maintaining VMCSE must be done precisely, and the failure to do so particularly at take off is the cause of many loss of control accidents. Add over gross density altitude and an engine failure, and you are in a corner with no way out. The aircraft probably never got to VMCSE, considering the reported proximity of the crash site to the runway.
The Pilot and passengers were seen arguing about all the baggage before they left Marsh Harbour. The Pilot was intimidated and allowed the overloaded condition, according to a witness. Sad.
PILOT’S WARNING IGNORED
By MALCOLM BALFOUR, PAULA FROELICH and BRAD HUNTER
SHOCKING NEWS:
“I am not believing this,” Mecca Bey (left) said yesterday, when she and cousin Heaven Grace heard about singer Aaliyah’s death.
- NYP: Tamara Beckwith
August 27, 2001 – A heated argument about the weight of equipment erupted between the pilot of the plane carrying singer Aaliyah and her video crew minutes before their tragic Bahamas crash, The Post has learned.
The pilot, who thought the plane was being dangerously overloaded, gave in, according to veteran Bahamian charter pilot Lewis Key, who said he overheard the dispute just before the plane took off and then crashed, killing all aboard.
"With nine people and all the camera and sound equipment they were loading, the pilot kept saying, ‘There’s too much weight for a safe flight to Opa-Locka [Airport in Miami],’ " Key told The Post.
“He tried to convince them the plane was overloaded, but they insisted they had chartered the plane and they had to be in Miami Saturday night.”
The crash occurred Saturday evening, seconds after the twin-engine Cessna 402 took off from Marsh Harbour airport on Abaco Island. Grammy-nominated Aaliyah, 22 - who was born in Brooklyn and lived on Central Park West - was killed instantly.
Six others died at the scene, and two died in hospitals.
Another possible cause of the tragedy, Keys said, could have been engine failure.
Keys said the pilot had trouble getting one of the engines started, adding, "Several people have said they lost an engine on takeoff.
“But I guess the only people who know that for sure were on the plane - and they’re all gone.”
Witness George Thomas said the plane slowly climbed to about 50 feet when it veered to the left, plummeted nose-first into a swamp and burst into flames. …
I just heard a news story tonight that the pilot was quite a character. He was arrested in Florida a short time ago. Seems like he ran a stop sign and when the police pulled him over and checked things out that he was packing some amount of cocaine.
Chris
750-1500# overweight and probably way out of balance aft, I don’t think any pilot could have successfully flown that aircraft. The story I heard was that the bodyguard of 300# was near the tail of the aircraft along with a lot of film/video equipment.
Certainly the drugs raise a question, but it is still not clear whether the pilot was using or transporting drugs. It will be interesting to see what the toxological tests show.
Also, I don’t think it is yet clear whether both engines were developing power at the time of the crash. It is entirely possible, given the weight and balance issue that there was not enough control authority to keep it upright.
I just finished an article last night in Private Pilot about rejecting a take off if it “doesen’t look right”. There was another story to the effect that this was the pilot’s first assignment in the 402, so I guess he did not have a lot of take offs to compare the preformance to.
I just heard a news story tonight that the pilot was quite a character. He was arrested in Florida a short time ago. Seems like he ran a stop sign and when the police pulled him over and checked things out that he was packing some amount of cocaine.
Chris
When will we [learn] from others mistakes?
…Truly the question of all questions, expecially in aviation.
My guess is that not only was the plane WAY over gross, but if they packed a lot of gear, including film gear, then the CG was WAY aft.
An invitation to a crash if ever there was one, and I don’t care how many engines you have. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did have both engines still going, but stalled right after getting off the runway.
No matter what - it is truly sad. And all I can say is if anyone has gotten lazy about what the CG can do to an airplane, let alone an overweight one, then do yourself a favor and get a refresher.