I appreciate all of the discussion of insurance. I am contemplating the purchase of a new SR20 and find the insurance cost shocking, and dare I say possibly prohibitive. Both AVEMCO and AOPA are quoting about $6,500 first year. I have over 500 hours and an instrument rating. I currently own a '79 Archer and pay about $1,000. A brand new Archer III would only be $2,800. Even if the first year $6,500 doesn’t scare me away, the unknown second year might. I don’t use my plane for business, and I probably will be looking at about 50 hours of flying time in the year. Unfortunately, the insurance might change my mind, as much as I love the SR20. Perhaps Cirrus had better do something about the insurance problem, or potential buyers will have to look elsewhere.
that’s pretty funny. Cirrus is subsidizing the cost of insurance for non-IR pilots down to below the level IR pilots are actually paying.
That sounds about what I heard about this deal, cirrus is offering low rate financing, cash back, or insurance reduction for <500 hr non-IR pilots.
Working on an IR is a good way to put lots and lots of time on a plane.
BTW - how did you get yours in August, they’re making me wait until September .
In reply to:
I assume this is correct about the customer Insurance Support Program?
Scott,
I don’t know the exact details, but I can confirm that Cirrus does indeed support such a program, which is described on their web site here. In part, that document states:
OPTION 3 INSURANCE SUBSIDY PROGRAM
CIRRUS encourages pilots to gain important safety training skills and IFR ratings while subsidizing insurance rates up to 60%. To be eligible, the pilot must have fewer than 500 hours and commit to achieving an instrument rating. The program will be in effect during the first year of aircraft ownership. This program is available to those taking delivery of a new SR20 before December 31, 2003 or an SR22 before October 31, 2003. Details vary depending on your particular experience and training objectives.
- Mike.
I ordered the plane in late June and requested an August date. They originally said early August but that was delayed so I could obtain the PFD option on the SR20.
Scott
That is absolutely NOT TRUE. Cirrus has been very generous with returning deposits on contracts. In fact, folks abused the flexibility so much (ditching a long term contract at the last minute) that recently Cirrus had to institute a policy of prorating your contract deposit return as you got close to the time of delivery. If you cancel more than 4 months out (I think), you still get a full refund. Any full refund after you make a committment to them is generous in my opinion.
… followup … I did in fact cancel my cirrus purchase and they have been incredibly helpful and professional and they are refunding my deposit without question.
Cirrus has been a great company to deal with. I don’t know what happened to the previous poster in this thread but they were really good to me and I hope one day I’ll be able to do some business with them.
the contract I signed has a 30 day cooling off clause which allows me to cancel without penalty and get my deposit back. I wouldn’t have signed up without it. I’m using those 30 days to find out everything I can about the plane, the insurance costs, financing options etc and I’ve been blitzing the members board with questions. Frankly it’s also time for me to reflect on the whole purchase and ensure I don’t have any of the buyer’s remorse an earlier poster to this thread suggested.
I’m assuming that if I cancel within those 30 days, Cirrus will send back my money. I have no reason to expect otherwise.
I now have 22 days left.
Roland:
When was the expected delivery date? In the past, Cirrus took deposits and held positions for folks for up to 2 years only to find people giving up the contract after their plane was constructed. Cirrus then had to find last minute buyers for these planes. As a result of being burned by customers, Cirrus changed the policy within the last year but is still very generous and flexible regarding contracts. But once the plane is being built, it is reasonable to expect that they will withold part of the deposit. After all, what is the purpose of a deposit in the first place?
I think everyone has some degree of buyer remorse as you are giving up a large sum of money for an item that is not totally necessary in your life. COPA has helped many a visitor and member feel comfortable in their decision.
Good luck with your Cirrus!
Hi, delivery date of the plane is 9/22/03.
I think Cirrus’ deposit terms are very good, as I understand them, and very fair.
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You have 30 days after contract to cancel and get a full deposit refund. That’s provided you don’t conflict with …
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30 days before delivery you pay the second progress payment and you are then locked in.
I could have had an August plane but, since I only did the contract on 7/21 that would have put me right into the last 30 days and I would have not had the opportunity to cancel.
Instead I took a September delivery plane and thus my dates look something like this
7/21 contract
8/20 last day of cancellation period
8/23 second progress payment due
9/22 delivery
I think this is extremely fair and does give purchasers the time to get all their ducks in a row. There will be people who find insurance to be extremely high, have trouble with financing, or just get cold feet after the sudden head rush. They don’t stand to lose a bunch of money for it. On the cirrus side they get people to commit on the day and I’m sure that helps sales, even if some people drop out afterwards.
The other thing I still have to do is fly the plane! The weather was horrible the day I saw it.
If you have not made up your mind yet, when you fly the plane you will be convinced!
We hope to ee you back when the insurance issues get solved. Our insurance experts promise us that they will; eventually.
sorry I was unclear. The initial quotes I got from a recommended broker were quite bad, however I went back to my usual aviation insurance broker and he made a few calls to companies they hadn’t spoken to and beat them by over 20%. They were still high, but acceptable.
In another part of this thread I said I was having trouble selling the whole deal to my wife. After 3 weeks she has remained quite set against the purchase and I very reluctantly chose not to proceed before I ran out of the end of my 30 day cancellation period.
That is a tough one Roland! Much more difficult to solve. Are her issues subject to change or is this a “forever no!”?
Her issues aren’t unreasonable. I have a history of buying planes and then not flying them enough and selling them again because I haven’t gotten value from owning them. That tends to get a little costly.
I’ve been very enthusiastic about the cirrus though, the demo flight went extremely well and I thought my enthusiasm would carry the day. We even went and did the due dilligence flying a few other planes to make sure cirrus was ‘the one’, I did my IPC to get my IR back current again this weekend. However when we sat down to talk about it last night she remained of the opinion that it was another ‘flash in the pan’ and would be sitting idle by November and be on ASO by March.
The only thing which is going to make a difference at this point is if I do 100 hours of rentals in C172s over the course of the next year and show that I actually have an enduring and continuing desire to commit aviation. That will end up of course costing about the same as the first year of cirrus ownership anyway.
what a difference a few days makes. I was totally miserable after cancelling the plane, read some of the messages here and sat down and talked to my wife again. Net result was uncancelling the plane and we’re back on for delivery in September.
I haven’t been this excited about aviation in a while, heck I even went down to the airport today just to take a look at the hangar I just rented (up here in the northeast, if they come up, you have to snap them up quick, and I did).
Thanks all, the passion for cirrus here on the board was a contributing factor in swaying opinion.
Man I have a lot to do …
Roland
Roland,
Besides building time, there are some other things you can do that might help to decrease your insurance cost a little. At the very least, they would help you become an even better pilot.
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Get additional certificates and endorsements. You might get a commercial certificate (the maneuvers alone will make you a better stick and rudder pilot), a tailwheel endorsement, a complex endorsement, or a seaplane certificate. If you don’t already have one, get a high performance endorsement.
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Fly for a volunteer organization, like Angel Flight. You will never have to make a flight that you are not comfortable with. You can build time while you’re helping someone.
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Join the Civil Air Patrol. If you have a good local branch, you can meet others that are enthusiastic about flying and get some valuable experience.
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If you are not already a member of AOPA and EAA, I recommend you sign up. They both have valuable members-only resources.
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Go to fly-ins. Meeting fellow pilots is a great way to learn more and sustain your enthusiasm. No fly-ins in your area? Organize one. It’s not too hard if your local airport cooperates. Set up a breakfast on a weekend and advertise, advertise, advertise. Pilots will fly a long way for a $100 pancake.
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Make the most of your time in C-172s. They are easy to fly, but like all airplanes, difficult to fly well. Can you grease it in with a crosswind, every time? Can you plant it on the numbers consistently during short field landings? Can you pull back on the yoke and adjust power to hold altitude within 50 feet, until it stalls? Getting a commercial certificate will help you learn these things, but the real key is practice, practice, practice – for which you have a golden opportunity.
I hope these suggestions are helpful, and I hope you get back on the purchase list soon.
Regards,
-Mike
Roland:
Unless you really DON’T like flying, I will bet you that a Cirrus is a plane you will not leave untouched once you have it.
I used to feel like I had satisfied my “urge” after landing from previous flight experiences. After finishing a flight in a Cirrus, I feel another urge to go back and fly some more. I am either getting a strange disease or really do like this plane.
No plane is perfect and sometimes we “over sell” the Cirrus in this forum as enthusiastic owners. But, all things considered, it is still the nicest plane I have ever flown which includes a lot of Cessnas, Pipers, Mooneys and some Beechcraft.
Roland
People ask me how I like my SR20. I tell them that I have 239 hours in it since late October compared to an average of 70 -100 per year in my Skyhawk.
All the hours are for the sheer pleasure of flying an incredible plane as none of it is business flying
John
SR20 N468JP #1261
In reply to:
People ask me how I like my SR20. I tell them that I have 239 hours in it since late October compared to an average of 70 -100 per year in my Skyhawk.
All the hours are for the sheer pleasure of flying an incredible plane as none of it is business flying
John,
I’ll toast that. 900 hours in 2 1/2 years in my '20, which breaks down as follows:
PLEASURE: 900 hours
BUSINESS: 0 hours.
- Mike.
Roland,
Welcome back. As others have mentioned, there’s something about a Cirrus that incites a passion for aviation. I’ll bet that your wife will enjoy flying more in a Cirrus, too. Maybe it’s the parachute or the visibility or the comfort or the four-point harnesses, but my passengers have all felt more safe and secure in my Cirrus than they ever felt in a spam can.
-Mike