I think the dues for the new COPA group should be reduced from $50 to $25 for starters. It’s a new organization without all of the niceties of some of the more established clubs like the Bonanza, Cessna, and Piper societies. Let’s go for a higher percentage of participation by keeping the dues low, build an organization, and raise the dues if necessary. AOPA dues are much lower than $50 and AOPA offers a tremendous amount of services. Moreover, many of us have several pilots in the family. I can understand how these multi-pilot families with three or four pilots don’t see the advantage of dropping $150-$200 in dues for a fledgling organization. I don’t think we’ll see a high level of participation with the dues as they are. For existing members, lengthen their membership.
If you want COPA to turn into something useful – they need capital just like everyone else. There is a limited potential for membership – aircraft owners (just over 200 now) and pilots who don’t own (?). The organization is not intended for the masses of the aviation community – but specifically to those with a interest in Cirrus airplanes.
Maybe COPA needs add a family plan, or a plan to benefit a specific airplane (i.e. partners joining as one member with appropriate limits on member benefits).
Bernie
N255BS
I think the dues for the new COPA group should be reduced from $50 to $25 for starters. It’s a new organization without all of the niceties of some of the more established clubs like the Bonanza, Cessna, and Piper societies. Let’s go for a higher percentage of participation by keeping the dues low, build an organization, and raise the dues if necessary. AOPA dues are much lower than $50 and AOPA offers a tremendous amount of services. Moreover, many of us have several pilots in the family. I can understand how these multi-pilot families with three or four pilots don’t see the advantage of dropping $150-$200 in dues for a fledgling organization. I don’t think we’ll see a high level of participation with the dues as they are. For existing members, lengthen their membership.
Hi Gary,
Like you, I don’t like spending money unnecessarily. But the difference in annual dues for http://www.cirruspilots.org/COPA that you’re talking about is just $25. That’s the cost of dinner for two at a middling restaurant, or 48 cents a week. I feel pretty comfortable gambling that $0.48 a week will translate into savings and benefits down the line. (Actually, I’m gambling even less than that. If you join for two years before 11/30/2001, the dues are just $45 a year rather than $50.)
I agree with you that having multiple members in a family can get expensive. I would be inclined to enroll only a single member in a family until such time as the COPA benefits (such as the training program and insurance discounts) are fully realized.
Hope your Duluth trip goes off as scheduled! We’re bringing up the rear at SR20 #266.
Cheers,
Roger
I certainly understand everyones considerations for the dues amount, however when looking at some of the other plane organizations, COPA is a similar amount. For example:
Cessna Owners Org is $44
Cessna Pilots Assoc is $45
Mooney Owners Assoc is $49.50, COPA is definitely within range here. Isn’t 50 bucks worth having a united advocacy group for aircraft we’re spending $200-300k for? Heck it costs me $700 a year for the privilege to be a member of the Florida Dental Association, with less expectations than I expect to get from COPA. And how about another $250 for the Academy of General Dentistry. and, and, and.
Who’s a member of AAA??? That costs a similar amount. Gee I know it’s ANOTHER $50 but heck how much is spent on fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc in a year? My 2 cents 
I have been monitoring, and on rare occasions posting on this forum since last year. Based on the persistent QC problems that owners have been having with the SRXX’s, I decided not to buy a Cirrus at this time. I came close to putting down a deposit, but I frankly am not willing to risk my life on some of the problems that others have experienced. Others I know have the same concerns.
I nonetheless joined COPA because of its stated intent to deal with Cirrus on some of the problems owners have been having. For me, it is well worth the $50 if COPA can be an effective voice to help Cirrus get to the root of the problems and get on top of the QC issues, thus insuring a better plane that I then will be willing to buy. If, however, COPA becomes a cheerleading squad that’s unwilling to tackle the tough issues and admit to the problems that need to be addressed before someone dies, then it will have been a waste of my money.
I think COPA is a great idea, and for now is well worth everyone’s support.
– Jim
I have been monitoring, and on rare occasions posting on this forum since last year. Based on the persistent QC problems that owners have been having with the SRXX’s, I decided not to buy a Cirrus at this time. I came close to putting down a deposit, but I frankly am not willing to risk my life on some of the problems that others have experienced. Others I know have the same concerns.
I nonetheless joined COPA because of its stated intent to deal with Cirrus on some of the problems owners have been having. For me, it is well worth the $50, or even more, if COPA can be an effective voice to help Cirrus get to the root of the problems and get on top of the QC issues, thus insuring a better plane that I then will be willing to buy. If, however, COPA becomes a cheerleading squad that’s unwilling to tackle the tough issues and admit to the problems that need to be addressed before someone dies, then it will have been a waste of my money.
I think COPA is a great idea, and for now is well worth everyone’s support.
– Jim
I think the dues for the new COPA group should be reduced from $50 to $25 for starters. It’s a new organization without all of the niceties of some of the more established clubs like the Bonanza, Cessna, and Piper societies. Let’s go for a higher percentage of participation by keeping the dues low, build an organization, and raise the dues if necessary. AOPA dues are much lower than $50 and AOPA offers a tremendous amount of services. Moreover, many of us have several pilots in the family. I can understand how these multi-pilot families with three or four pilots don’t see the advantage of dropping $150-$200 in dues for a fledgling organization. I don’t think we’ll see a high level of participation with the dues as they are. For existing members, lengthen their membership.
Fellow Cirrus enthusiasts:
I have been following this thread and decided that although not trying to establish a precident or violate the totally non-commercial nature of this site, I will respond, not as ‘the Official COPA line,’ but as its President - speaking personally.
Many of you have brought up excellent points, both pro and con COPA, its value for the dues and expectations.
The Board at COPA considered many issues to set the dues.
First and foremeost, we prepared a preliminary budget, and determined what it would cost to provide the services we have disucssed. We readilly admit that our assumptions were little more than educated guesses.
Among other things, we had no idea how many members we would get. As many of you will know, the organization has fixed costs which do not vary with the number of members, variable costs which vary directly by the number of members and then some seme-variable costs, which vary with the number of members, but not directly.
Secondly, we wanted to provide value for the money. That is why we delayed our “Grand Opening” until later this month. Some of our features were just not ready. Anyone who paid has the opportunity for a refund and the memberships will not ‘start’ until we open officially.
Third, we wanted to set dues at a level that would result in the highest membership, marketing if you will.
The desire for a large membership has several reasons of its own, but the primary is to assist us serve our members. As a representative of our members, we carry more weight with the manufacturers (Cirrus, TCM, Garmin, ARNAV, etc.) if we have more members. With this weight, we believe we will get better access and responsivness.
Finally, we looked at other ‘type clubs’ and similar organizations. While we are not competing, in fact we cooperate with each other, we used this as a reality check or proxy for ‘what the market woud bear.’
Having said all of that, we acknowledge that we aren’t going to offer all that ABS, AOPA or other long established organizations offer. That will come in time. BUT, we are offering other services which the others do not offer. These include many of the on-line functions, databases, etc. We are also working diligently on other benefits, which may or may not come to pass. These include recurrent safety training and discounted group insurance. Given the recent incidents, this will be very dificult, but success is, therefore, even more important. (Quite frankly, while we look to and compare oursevlves with the other type clubs, our goal is to be BETTER than they are.)
As we gain some experience and look at our income and expenses, we will review the dues and if at all practical, reduce them. We are after all, non-profit.
To answer some of the other comments:
We are considering some sort of family or group memberships. The disucssions are only just beginning and I can not promise anything. If you have any suggestions, please send them to membership@cirruspilots.org. I assure you we will review and consider them.
As for families, and this is just an off-the-cuff thought, I would think that any aircraft oriented services we provide would apply equally to all family members who use the aircraft. Our newsletter (if you are like me) will probably be laying around the house and, therefore, easily available to all in the household. Our events, the ones which we would either limit access to or charge for, I am confident that in almost all of these cases, there would be some sort of reduced rate for family mmebers. We just aren’t there yet. Our first "national’ meeting will be without charge and we are just beginning to work on the second large scale event, so it is too early to tell.
Finally, I would like to renmind, or maybe inform, everyone: COPA is a volunteer organization. We have no paid staff and virtually no overhead. We are not supported by a commercial venture or subsidized by any other organizations. Virtually every dolar we receive will go to supporting our services and benefits. In fact, our ‘staff’ is essentially subsidizing the organization by paying for some costs which should be covered by COPA. (A practice that I want to stop.)
In closing this way too long response, We invite you all to join. So far, response has been terrific! We appreciate your support, and I promise that our volunteers are working extremely diligently to get this brand new organization up and running. We will do everything within our abilities and resources to make your expereinces exceed your expectations.
We welcome all comments - from members and non-members alike. If you would like to go the extra step and volunteer, please let us know. We could use the help in many areas. I only ask that you send your responses to: membership@cirruspilots.org
Marty Kent
COPA
I have to throw my support behind the points Bruce made. I made a cursory review of the organizations to which I pay dues…$75 here, $200 there…and mostly for the intangible benefits I receive by showing my support. I even pay $52 per year to belong to the Professional Women Controllers organization; as a manager I haven’t vectored an airplane in years…and I’m male! I just called my union counterpart and asked what he pays in dues to the National Air Traffic Controllers Assn (the PATCO replacement). His dues are $1436.00 per year. Thus, in the right perspective, $50/yr is reasonable.
I also thought I’d see how much controversy I’d stir by adding that “family” or “corporate” memberships tend to be a sore spot with those who aren’t married or haven’t filed articles of incorporation. If you receive the same benefits and generate the same costs, you should be required to pay the same dues. Perhaps an “associate” membership level would be appropriate for lower dues and correspondingly less member benefits.
Kelly Rudy SR22 #178
I certainly understand everyones considerations for the dues amount, however when looking at some of the other plane organizations, COPA is a similar amount. For example:
Cessna Owners Org is $44
Cessna Pilots Assoc is $45
Mooney Owners Assoc is $49.50, COPA is definitely within range here. Isn’t 50 bucks worth having a united advocacy group for aircraft we’re spending $200-300k for? Heck it costs me $700 a year for the privilege to be a member of the Florida Dental Association, with less expectations than I expect to get from COPA. And how about another $250 for the Academy of General Dentistry. and, and, and.
Who’s a member of AAA??? That costs a similar amount. Gee I know it’s ANOTHER $50 but heck how much is spent on fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc in a year? My 2 cents
Marty,
I’m glad your president. Well spoken.
Chris
Ouch. Well spoken I’m not this early…
I’m glad YOU’RE president.
Marty,
I’m glad your president. Well spoken.
Chris