Cirrus's Plans for the future

Guest Discussion
1

A few weeks ago I spoke with Ian Bently of Cirrus Design to find out what their plans were for incorporation of some emerging technology. Natually their focus is on production rate, quality, etc. However, Ian did give me an indication of where things are going in a few areas once they have the resources. No promises, etc. It is quite possible that I’ve misinterpreted something Ian said, so please keep that in mind in case something here doesn’t seem right.

  1. FADEC: They hope to get a sample FADEC engine

    within a few weeks for testing. Naturally,

    they’d like to make that option available ASAP.

    FADEC not only offers the user simpler

    engine management and higher efficiency, but

    the hope is that it will reduce warrenty

    claims by reducing the ability of the pilot

    to damage the engine.

  2. TCAS: Most likely system they would offer is

    the BF Goodrich Skywatch, which list around
    $20,000 (don’t know how much Cirrus with charge though).

    Good for users – helps avoid mid-airs. Good

    for Cirrus – they can make more money. BF

    Goodrich has offered intergration help in the

    form of an engineer to work out just how to

    install the unit, antenna placement, cabling,

    etc. Could display on any of the four screens

    in the SR22 (Sandel, Arnav, or either 430). I don’t recall which was the most likely.

  3. Uplinked Wx: major turmoil in this business,

    so Cirrus will wait six months and re-examine.

    There are a number of competing old and new

    systems and Cirrus will wait for the smoke
    to clear. Arnav has an existing ground-based system. However they also have a contract with

    the FAA to build a new, incompatible system.

    Wouldn’t want to use the old system as it will

    become obsolete. The new system isn’t here

    yet (sounds like the Osborne effect).

    There is also the space-based Echoflight and

    Globalstar. Ian thinks the space-based systems

    are more viable long-term. In any case, it

    isn’t something Cirrus can or should do much

    about until things settle out.

  4. Fuel computer: linked to FADEC, naturally falls

    out of having FADEC.

  5. Engine monitor: should have been done six
    months ago. With FADEC, the engine monitor

    will be new anyway. (So are they going to

    wait for FADEC to get better engine monitoring?

    I guess so.)

  6. EGPWS: I don’t recall what Ian said.

This is to the best of my recollection and notes from my conversation with Ian.

Robert Bedichek
2

A few weeks ago I spoke with Ian Bently of Cirrus Design to find out what their plans were for incorporation of some emerging technology. Natually their focus is on production rate, quality, etc. However, Ian did give me an indication of where things are going in a few areas once they have the resources. No promises, etc. It is quite possible that I’ve misinterpreted something Ian said, so please keep that in mind in case something here doesn’t seem right.

  1. FADEC: They hope to get a sample FADEC engine

within a few weeks for testing. Naturally,

they’d like to make that option available ASAP.

FADEC not only offers the user simpler

engine management and higher efficiency, but

the hope is that it will reduce warrenty

claims by reducing the ability of the pilot

to damage the engine.

Great news on the FADEC. Keep us posted if you get any further information. Do you have any details on the manufacturer, contact person, email, etc.?

  1. TCAS: Most likely system they would offer is

the BF Goodrich Skywatch, which list around
$20,000 (don’t know how much Cirrus with charge though).

Good for users – helps avoid mid-airs. Good

for Cirrus – they can make more money. BF

Goodrich has offered intergration help in the

form of an engineer to work out just how to

install the unit, antenna placement, cabling,

etc. Could display on any of the four screens

in the SR22 (Sandel, Arnav, or either 430). I don’t recall which was the most likely.

On TCAS, I have previously learned that the BFGoodrich system will be the one that will interface with the Arnav. As to when, I am not certain. It currently interfaces with the Garmin 430, under the traffic/weather page. According to recent email from Sandel, there are both hardware and display questions remaining before there will be TCAS display on the Sandel EHSI. Sandel is still working on their display.

  1. Uplinked Wx: major turmoil in this business,

so Cirrus will wait six months and re-examine.

There are a number of competing old and new

systems and Cirrus will wait for the smoke
to clear. Arnav has an existing ground-based system. However they also have a contract with

the FAA to build a new, incompatible system.

Wouldn’t want to use the old system as it will

become obsolete. The new system isn’t here

yet (sounds like the Osborne effect).

There is also the space-based Echoflight and

Globalstar. Ian thinks the space-based systems

are more viable long-term. In any case, it

isn’t something Cirrus can or should do much

about until things settle out.

  1. Fuel computer: linked to FADEC, naturally falls

out of having FADEC.

  1. Engine monitor: should have been done six
    months ago. With FADEC, the engine monitor

will be new anyway. (So are they going to

wait for FADEC to get better engine monitoring?

I guess so.)

  1. EGPWS: I don’t recall what Ian said.

This is to the best of my recollection and notes from my conversation with Ian.

Robert Bedichek

3

A few weeks ago I spoke with Ian Bently of Cirrus Design to find out what their plans were for incorporation of some emerging technology. Natually their focus is on production rate, quality, etc. However, Ian did give me an indication of where things are going in a few areas once they have the resources. No promises, etc. It is quite possible that I’ve misinterpreted something Ian said, so please keep that in mind in case something here doesn’t seem right.

  1. FADEC: They hope to get a sample FADEC engine

within a few weeks for testing. Naturally,

they’d like to make that option available ASAP.

FADEC not only offers the user simpler

engine management and higher efficiency, but

the hope is that it will reduce warrenty

claims by reducing the ability of the pilot

to damage the engine.

I too heard much the same from Ian at the AOPA convention. As I recall, he said that the majority of warranty calls that Cirrus has received have been engine related - mostly problems starting. It is expected that FADEC will solve most of these problems. Ian said that FADEC would be offered as an option in part because many pilots have indicated that they would prefer the clunky old system that is tried and true.

Scott

  1. TCAS: Most likely system they would offer is

the BF Goodrich Skywatch, which list around
$20,000 (don’t know how much Cirrus with charge though).

Good for users – helps avoid mid-airs. Good

for Cirrus – they can make more money. BF

Goodrich has offered intergration help in the

form of an engineer to work out just how to

install the unit, antenna placement, cabling,

etc. Could display on any of the four screens

in the SR22 (Sandel, Arnav, or either 430). I don’t recall which was the most likely.

  1. Uplinked Wx: major turmoil in this business,

so Cirrus will wait six months and re-examine.

There are a number of competing old and new

systems and Cirrus will wait for the smoke
to clear. Arnav has an existing ground-based system. However they also have a contract with

the FAA to build a new, incompatible system.

Wouldn’t want to use the old system as it will

become obsolete. The new system isn’t here

yet (sounds like the Osborne effect).

There is also the space-based Echoflight and

Globalstar. Ian thinks the space-based systems

are more viable long-term. In any case, it

isn’t something Cirrus can or should do much

about until things settle out.

  1. Fuel computer: linked to FADEC, naturally falls

out of having FADEC.

  1. Engine monitor: should have been done six
    months ago. With FADEC, the engine monitor

will be new anyway. (So are they going to

wait for FADEC to get better engine monitoring?

I guess so.)

  1. EGPWS: I don’t recall what Ian said.

This is to the best of my recollection and notes from my conversation with Ian.

Robert Bedichek

4

My hope for the future of Cirrus and GA is the incorporation / certification of the first available Jet A piston engine…

Jaap J. Dito

A few weeks ago I spoke with Ian Bently of Cirrus Design to find out what their plans were for incorporation of some emerging technology. > Robert Bedichek

5

At the AOPA convention in October, both TCM and Cirrus said that a FADEC equipped IO-550 was “on the truck”. Now it sounds as though the truck may have taken a detour. And someone on this forum recently said that FAA certification for this engine continues to slip. So it may be a while yet. As for those of us less-desireable customers still waiting for an SR20, TCM said that it would be “about a year” before they got around to thinking about FADEC on the IO-360.

When I got into the two-year SR20 line in June 2000, I had a fantasy that I might have a chance at the aero diesel engine. Now I’m wondering if I’ll even have a FADEC option in 2002.

  1. FADEC: They hope to get a sample FADEC engine within a few weeks for testing.
6
  1. TCAS: Most likely system they would offer is

the BF Goodrich Skywatch, which list around
$20,000 (don’t know how much Cirrus with charge though).

Good for users – helps avoid mid-airs. Good

for Cirrus – they can make more money. BF

Goodrich has offered intergration help in the

form of an engineer to work out just how to

install the unit, antenna placement, cabling,

etc. Could display on any of the four screens

in the SR22 (Sandel, Arnav, or either 430). I don’t recall which was the most likely.

On TCAS, I have previously learned that the BFGoodrich system will be the one that will interface with the Arnav. As to when, I am not certain. It currently interfaces with the Garmin 430, under the traffic/weather page. According to recent email from Sandel, there are both hardware and display questions remaining before there will be TCAS display on the Sandel EHSI. Sandel is still working on their display.

Steven & Robert,

I plan to add a TCAD-like device to my SR20 soon after delivery (in about 2 months! :). So I obviously was pretty curious to know which one Cirrus would eventually support (Goodrich or Ryan), so that I could go ahead and install that system now – perhaps displayed on the 430 – with the intention of displaying it on the Arnav once Arnav & Cirrus worked out the issues.

It looks like this is going to be hard to do however. I had heard from everyone I talked to at Cirrus, including as recently as 2 weeks ago, that the Ryan was almost certainly the system that Arnav & Cirrus would support. In fact I had already talked to a couple shops to start getting quotes for installing the Ryan system!

Then I saw a post here on this forum (sorry, I forget who posted it) saying that Tom Bergeron (west coast sales rep I believe) said that the Goodrich system was the one that Arnav/Cirrus would support.

So I called my sales rep and the answer he gave was basically that it’s too early to tell – they (Cirrus) can’t make any promises about what Arnav is going to do – probably after getting burned for promising the engine monitoring stuff for so long. But he said he wouldn’t count on Cirrus or Arnav supporting one particular make of traffic device.

As for me, I’ll probably end up getting the Ryan unit since it’s cheaper, and if it ends up being the wrong gamble (i.e. if Arnav & Cirrus end up supporting BF Goodrich) then I’ll be happy with the Ryan being displayed on the 430, at least until/unless I get a Sandel unit… The main problem with displaying on the 430 is that it doesn’t appear to be in a location to scan it as frequently as if it could be displayed on the Arnav, but it’s sure better than nothing…

maybe if anyone has some good contacts inside Arnav we could ask them from their side which they plan to support??

Steve

7

maybe if anyone has some good contacts inside Arnav we could ask them from their side which they plan to support??

Steve,

In the past, I’ve spoken with John Glaisyer at (253) 848-6060.

His email is jglaisyer@arnav.com

Mike.

8

maybe if anyone has some good contacts inside Arnav we could ask them from their side which they plan to support??

Steve,

In the past, I’ve spoken with John Glaisyer at (253) 848-6060.

Mike,

Thanks very much! I sent an email and got a response in the same day; as much as we may all complain about Arnav, I was impressed to get such a quick response!

In order to reduce the number of emails that John will receive regarding the same question, I’ll post his reply to me here: (note the use of both “SR22” and “SR20” in the email is his; I don’t know if that means from Arnav’s perspective the two are identical, or if it’s just a typo)

Steve,

The Ryan TCAD will be available first. We should eventually support both the Ryan and B.F. Goodrich units.

The engineers at Cirrus are currently working to find locations for the antenna(s) for both systems.

Here is the latest we have on other upgrades to the ICDS 2000.

The WX500 interface is available now. The engine monitoring should be available in your SR22 first quarter of 2001 and weather in the second quarter. I understand Cirrus will be making retrofit kits available if you take delivery of your SR20 before one of the above features is
available.

9

Here’s a response from Arnav I received a couple of days ago on the subject:

Larry,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Our Terrain and obstruction application is standard on the ICDS 2000.

We should eventually support both the Ryan TCAD and B.F. Goodrich Skywatch,

TCAD being first. The engineers at Cirrus are currently working to find

locations for the antenna(s) for both systems. I don’t have an estimate on

the time of availability for these two interfaces.

Here is the latest we have on other upgrades to the ICDS 2000.

The WX500 interface is available now. The engine monitoring should be

available in your SR20 first quarter of 2001 and weather in the second

quarter. I understand Cirrus will be making retrofit kits available if you

take delivery of your SR20 before one of the above features is available.

We, at both ARNAV and Cirrus, are working hard to make all the features

every customer is waiting for available with a minimum of inconvenience.

Feel free to check in with us anytime, either by email or on our web site

at: www.arnav.com.

The web site gives you more information on the ICDS 2000. I will also be

sending you a brochure.

Best regards,

John Glaisyer

ARNAV

10

Here’s a response from Arnav I received a couple of days ago on the subject:

Larry,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Our Terrain and obstruction application is standard on the ICDS 2000.

We should eventually support both the Ryan TCAD and B.F. Goodrich Skywatch,

TCAD being first. The engineers at Cirrus are currently working to find

locations for the antenna(s) for both systems. I don’t have an estimate on

the time of availability for these two interfaces.

Here is the latest we have on other upgrades to the ICDS 2000.

The WX500 interface is available now. The engine monitoring should be

available in your SR20 first quarter of 2001 and weather in the second

quarter. I understand Cirrus will be making retrofit kits available if you

take delivery of your SR20 before one of the above features is available.

We, at both ARNAV and Cirrus, are working hard to make all the features

every customer is waiting for available with a minimum of inconvenience.

Feel free to check in with us anytime, either by email or on our web site

at: www.arnav.com.

The web site gives you more information on the ICDS 2000. I will also be

sending you a brochure.

Best regards,

John Glaisyer

ARNAV

John is a great guy. He is a great asset for ARNAV.

11

Maybe than it’s time for ARNAV now to update their internetsite;

“ARNAV is pleased that Cirrus Design has selected ARNAV Multifunction Displays for their completely new SR20 aircraft currently undergoing certification !”

Best regards,

John Glaisyer

ARNAV

John is a great guy. He is a great asset for ARNAV.

12

OK, I’ll confess that the aero diesel fantasy is a frequent late night visitor and makes my 8/02 delivery easier to live with.