Never mind then I knew they switched from the 6 cylinder. I guess my ForeFlight w&b is right then.
I’m coming to this late, but… this isn’t a trip for anyone, especially a student or new private pilot. 5 people in a 20? No. I wouldn’t dream of putting 5 people in my 22. Don’t do it. Drive.
Here’s a few things to consider:
1 Vegas has notoriously high terrain on all sides and has very challenging density altitude issues. A bad combination.
2 You will be nervous and very distracted in front of your friends, and your skills will decrease. If one of them gets sick or freaks out from turbulence, do you have the experience to handle that as well as fly the plane?
3 People take these flights all the time and they die doing it (see Scottsdale previously mentioned).
4 It’s not fair on your friends to make this trip, who presumably aren’t pilots and blindly trust that you know what you’re doing.
5 If you’re a student pilot, it tells me you’ve never had passengers without an instructor. Do you really want this flight with this many people to be your first / one of your first without an instructor?
6 Reducing your fuel to allow for passengers / luggage is a red flag. I’m not saying every flight has to be full fuel, but you never know what will happen, how long things will take, vectors ATC may give you, etc. I think I read you want to take 30 gallons, I don’t think I’ve ever left the ground with only 30 gallons. Always better to have much more fuel than you think you need.
Sorry to be so direct. My strong advice is don’t do this trip or anything close to it. I am still relatively new, have around 700 hours (600 in my Cirrus) and have flown across the country and back 3 times. I wouldn’t dream of doing this trip in my 22.
It’s great you thought to post here. Presumably it’s because you knew this was possibly a dangerous trip. A good pilot takes the answer they’re getting, not the answer they want. I haven’t read all the posts but from what I have I think the answer you’re getting is “don’t do it”.
Good luck. Reach out anytime if I can help.
This is interesting to me… have my eye on a similar bird. Thank you for doing.
Can you share your empty weight, CG & moment?
The advice given here, really has nothing to do with this or any aircraft. Pushing limits is not a good thing.
We learn from our errors, but smart people learn from other people’s errors.
I didn’t see an answer to this. I’m guessing the answer is he’s a student who has learned in 20s (and Cessnas?) so a 22 would be outside of his comfort level - or at least should be.
You were wise to ask this group. I didn’t fly with passengers until IFR and had 150-hours. Now with 1600 hours in Cirrus alone, I am still learning how much I don’t know. Distractions, pressure, the environment for your trip, and reduced performance from operating equipment near the limits are all risks. I understand your intent and applaud your openness. All the best, Sean
- Empty weight: 2048
- Moment: 306.561
- Equipment: A/C and composite prop
I’ve bolded the most important takeaway from this thread, Renesh. Your curiosity, caution, and flexibility have been exemplary, even if the original aspiration was… well, somewhat of a reach.
I hope you will join COPA (if you haven’t already) and keep asking such questions. When a situation arises where you would rather discuss one-on-one (rather than subject yourself to the tender mercies of strangers on the Internet), I’m happy to set up a time to talk on Zoom/phone. I’ve flown my SR-20 up and down California and Nevada for the last 17 years and ~1500 hours. Many others on this thread are much more qualified, and will probably be willing to offer the same. Contact information for individuals is available to members.
Most companies require 200+ hours plus instrument rating for the SR22 and turbo. Usually insurance requirements.
I think it’s a fair requirement. Too much airplane.
Totally agree.
Hi there,
Firstly congrats for posting and looking for advice. Down the road, you will look back on this thread some day or recognize a similar one and you will understand the advice a lot better.
One of the most exciting things about flying is being able to take people places. It’s amazing. As a student pilot you are exited but also cautious but yet part of you is trying to push to the edge of the envelope. That’s natural.
Although I highly disagree with the FAA standards (too low) for a pilots license, you are legally licensed to take passengers once you have it.
A flight from SoCal to Vegas is one you should do alone first, at least 3-4 times before you take another soul in there.
You should look out for a mediocre weather day also, take a CFI as a safety pilot and pretend they are not there. Try landing in Vegas when it’s windy. Stuff you need to do yourself alone and master before you take pax.
Pax are a distraction. You only want to take pax when you are comfortable and experienced on the route you intend to take them.
Your license really is a license to learn. Get past the 500hrs time in type before you will fly that plane to max gross with pax.
Again, glad you posted, the advice on this thread will save your life and others. These planes are amazing but deadly when we are not looking.
Yes I will doing this trip solo or with a CFI a couple of times. And I will only be taking 2 other people not including me. And I will be taking my friends for multiple local flights probably out to the San Diego coast and back.
The place I’m going to rent from has three SR20 G6 for 275$/wet, and two SR22T,
for 325$/dry. One of them is a 2015 SR22T. None of them have the minimum hours of experience needed.
Wow, that’s surprising.
The turbo has a pretty bad payload. The SR22 NA is unbeatable in that respect.
Yeah, if I’m reading this right, they’ll let you rent their SR22s without any minimums? My guess is they may not have them for long.
Agree with you, Marlon: I have the NA 22. Couldn’t be happier with it in every way including payload. Love that plane…
I’m sure that their insurance company has minimum requirements. They just must not have listed them on their website.
Makes sense. I remember when I got my 22, the insurance company had ridiculously low requirements - I think it was something like 5 hours with an instructor. I only had about 100 hours TT at the time (in pipers). I did quite a bit more before I felt good to go solo.
You can buy anything paying the right amount. Usually reasonable rates come with increased requirements, especially with an open pilot policy.
If I were an insurance company, I wouldn’t insure an SR22T to someone without an instrument rating. But you’ll see people here buying insurance being VFR-only. With the insurance market tightening up, it may be more and more difficult / expensive over time.
No I’ve spoken to them and their instructor. They just require to complete the transition and that’s it. They have had the aircraft for a long time and aren’t selling them soon. It’s one of the only few places in the Southern California area that don’t require minimums on even the SR20’s for that matter. I was surprised too when I saw the SR22T without minimums. There is another flying club in San Diego that has an SR22 G3 Perspective with STEC 55X autopilot for $310/wet.
Flying with passengers sucks. I didnt realize how lucky I was to be flying my family and both kids wear headphones and listen to music. My wife will wear a headset and listen in sometimes but she knows when to be quiet. I have flown my 2 partners on some business trips and they just talk away. I normally block them. I just dont like people talking. Other pilots are fine as they know when to shut up. I really have no desire to be flying friends around but your situation may be different. I would definitely consider muting them if they like to talk and ask alot of questions. It just adds too many distractions. Its nice to be able to use your license but I never carried a passenger until I finished my IFR training. Not to say there is anything wrong with flying with a new PPL and passengers but I just didnt feel comfortable enough.
Darron