Things to look for!

Guest Discussion
1

Things to watch for: As most of you know I have flown ol’ N415WM for well over 300 hours. During that period, I have had some issues with the SR20 that anyone would expect given it is a brand-new product and I had the first customer delivered airplane. Surprisingly, there have not been as many problems as I thought there could have been, and, most importantly, those problems that did crop up have been dealt with promptly and without hesitation by Cirrus and the folks at Del Monte Aviation here in Monterey, CA.
With that as a backdrop, I want to let other owners know of some issues that I have encountered in hopes that sharing such information will lead us all to have and maintain a better product.

 Aside from minor cosmetic issues that have been addressed there are two things that warrant mentioning here. The first is vacuum pump failures. I have had FIVE vacuum pumps fail. The last three have not even lasted 50 hours each. Now before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, I want you to know that this issue has been worked and continues to be worked by Cirrus and their engineers as well as with Airborne (pump manufacturer). Clearly, a solution has not been found. When the last pump failed, Del Monte Aviation noted some hoses that were kinked hoses and after some discussion with Cirrus a decision was made to replace not only the kinked hoses, but virtually everything in the vacuum system. The last pump still failed after only 43.6 Hobbs hours. Things being considered now are harmonics (related to my engine, prop (3 blade), and my specific avionics Â…'A' Package), heat on the pump, and filters. If anyone else has some ideas I'd bet Cirrus would like to hear them. Mind you, the Cirrus guys are pretty bright folks, but this problem seems a little baffling.

 The other problem just happened to me today. The right door hinge (the lower one) gave way (broke). Fortunately, it broke as we were shutting down. If such a failure were to happen in flight I dread to think of what would have happened. Clearly the door would have been lost, which could have in turn damaged flight controls in the process! Whew! If in taxing the loss of either hinge could produce major damage. Cirrus had already spotted the potential problem and has a service bulletin out the correct the problem, but when my annual was done the new parts weren't in so I left without the hinges being replaced. While my hinges will now be replaced for sure, it behooves each of you to check your hinges to make sure (if you haven't replaced them) that you inspect them carefully.

 Finally, I want to add that as one who was most vocal about not needing the standby vacuum pump as we had a rate-based auto pilot to turn to in the event of an emergency, I have to tell you that the backup system works extremely well. The only thing that tells you that the vacuum pump has failed is the red idiot light on the panel that comes on indicating you have had a vacuum failure, AND the amber light that indicates the standby vacuum pump is operating. Vacuum never drops and your instruments are rock solid.

 This is a great plane. As I come up on my one year anniversary I can honestly tell you this is the best value in general aviation despite some problems. You all fly safely out there!
2

Although it’s a little early to draw too many conclusions (VH-CRF is now registered, but still awaits the Aussie CofA - hopefully today!) but there have been several avionics and electrical failures on it already. Has anyone else had such problems? Those that we’ve had so far are:

  1. Secondary alternator intermittently dropping off-line - no fault found, but it’s happened at least twice.

  2. Two transponder failures - once while leaving the factory, and once more sometime during the Pacific crossing.

  3. Bent pin in GNS430 datacard socket. It seemed to occur when replacing the datacard, but I wonder if the connectors are a little under-designed.

  4. External power relay U/S.

On the positive side, the mechanics here have been very impressed with the ease of access to the systems on the SR20 - we’ve been told that the cost of inspections should be significantly lower than for a spam-can due to less labour being required.

3

Things to watch for: As most of you know I have flown ol’ N415WM for well over 300 hours. During that period, I have had some issues with the SR20 that anyone would expect given it is a brand-new product and I had the first customer delivered airplane. Surprisingly, there have not been as many problems as I thought there could have been, and, most importantly, those problems that did crop up have been dealt with promptly and without hesitation by Cirrus and the folks at Del Monte Aviation here in Monterey, CA.
With that as a backdrop, I want to let other owners know of some issues that I have encountered in hopes that sharing such information will lead us all to have and maintain a better product.

Aside from minor cosmetic issues that have been addressed there are two things that warrant mentioning here. The first is vacuum pump failures. I have had FIVE vacuum pumps fail. The last three have not even lasted 50 hours each. Now before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, I want you to know that this issue has been worked and continues to be worked by Cirrus and their engineers as well as with Airborne (pump manufacturer). Clearly, a solution has not been found. When the last pump failed, Del Monte Aviation noted some hoses that were kinked hoses and after some discussion with Cirrus a decision was made to replace not only the kinked hoses, but virtually everything in the vacuum system. The last pump still failed after only 43.6 Hobbs hours. Things being considered now are harmonics (related to my engine, prop (3 blade), and my specific avionics Â…‘A’ Package), heat on the pump, and filters. If anyone else has some ideas I’d bet Cirrus would like to hear them. Mind you, the Cirrus guys are pretty bright folks, but this problem seems a little baffling.

The other problem just happened to me today. The right door hinge (the lower one) gave way (broke). Fortunately, it broke as we were shutting down. If such a failure were to happen in flight I dread to think of what would have happened. Clearly the door would have been lost, which could have in turn damaged flight controls in the process! Whew! If in taxing the loss of either hinge could produce major damage. Cirrus had already spotted the potential problem and has a service bulletin out the correct the problem, but when my annual was done the new parts weren’t in so I left without the hinges being replaced. While my hinges will now be replaced for sure, it behooves each of you to check your hinges to make sure (if you haven’t replaced them) that you inspect them carefully.

Finally, I want to add that as one who was most vocal about not needing the standby vacuum pump as we had a rate-based auto pilot to turn to in the event of an emergency, I have to tell you that the backup system works extremely well. The only thing that tells you that the vacuum pump has failed is the red idiot light on the panel that comes on indicating you have had a vacuum failure, AND the amber light that indicates the standby vacuum pump is operating. Vacuum never drops and your instruments are rock solid.

This is a great plane. As I come up on my one year anniversary I can honestly tell you this is the best value in general aviation despite some problems. You all fly safely out there!

I too have intermittent transponder problems. The day I was schedualed to leave Duluth(6-9) I was taking IPC ride when control reported they lost my transponder. When I got back to Cirrus, they knew I had a problem because they where monitoring my flight(pretty impressive). Anyway they ended up replacing the transponder, the antenna, and the cables. Unfortunately, I still have an intermittent problem. I think it is a ground-plan problem or a encoder problem.

I also had a right door seal problem that produced a whistle at 155kts or above, and it was deafining. I think I solved the problem by pushing the ends of the rubber seal together(there was about an 1/8 inch gap). Also when idleing for an extended period, my oil temputure climbs to 235 deg. One other minor problem, the speaker grill keeps falling off.

All in all, I still love the plane!!

4

Thanks for the post walt.Lots of us read these to see what we can do to make a perfect product.Yes it is a new product . any new aircraft will have some minor probs… but when we hear of any we will work out and of course strive for perfection.Like we always do.Everyone knows who walt is at cirrus … your our first … thanks again . rick

5

The first is vacuum pump failures. I have had FIVE vacuum pumps fail. The last three have not even lasted 50 hours each. Now before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, I want you to know that this issue has been worked and continues to be worked by Cirrus and their engineers as well as with Airborne (pump manufacturer). Clearly, a solution has not been found.

I don’t know what the warranty situation is with your plane passing the one year mark, but were I in your position I would install the Sigma Tek bi-directional vacuum pump in a heartbeat. It is good that Cirrus/Airborne are working this, but in the interim, you need a vacuum pump that functions! Given that they have not even identified the cause, I’d head for a different pump manufacturer. That would at least tell you if the unknown cause relates at all to the pump itself.

When the last pump failed, Del Monte Aviation noted some hoses that were kinked hoses and after some discussion with Cirrus a decision was made to replace not only the kinked hoses, but virtually everything in the vacuum system.

If this is now being done by Cirrus under warranty then you pretty well have to go along with it. But if nothing improves, Plan B is still out there. Am a little surprised more trouble shooting was not done. Kinked hoses in the wrong place can require the vacuum pump to work much harder than it is designed to. If that was the situation it should have been identified as such after the first pump failure.

6

I have now done 120 hours and the plane has done about 180 as Cirrus used it when I had my ferry problems.

I have had no problems whatsoever with the transponder or vacum pump.

If mine does fail I hope the fuse is not pulled on the standby as I usually pull it when I check the lights on the walk round as it is noisy.I then sometimes forget to reset it.

I will be looking at my door hinge as like Walt the mod was not available when it was last in for service.

The speaker grill is irratating as it does fall off.

The second alternator ‘no charge’ warning light glows on medium and low power settings. There is no problem with charging as this can be checked on the ammeter it is just the warning light system. I would be interested to know if others have this because I am told it cant be fixed.

I have a draught through the door not bad enuogh to be a noise but the AD will be applied on the next service.

I had occasionally a knock from under the plane. This turned out to be the exhaust knocking the frame. Shortly after I got an AD to tighten the springs holding the exhuast.
Generally whatever problems I have had someone else has had them before and they are allready in the process of bieng sorted.

I see there is an optional AD to put a trim tab on the rudder. I assume this is so you can bend the tab to trim the plane for the most usual power setting you use in the cruise.
Out of interest the cost of the hundred hour inspection in Holland was about $1000 how does this seem by US standards.

7

Things to watch for: As most of you know I have flown ol’ N415WM for well over 300 hours. During that period, I have had some issues with the SR20 that anyone would expect given it is a brand-new product and I had the first customer delivered airplane. Surprisingly, there have not been as many problems as I thought there could have been, and, most importantly, those problems that did crop up have been dealt with promptly and without hesitation by Cirrus and the folks at Del Monte Aviation here in Monterey, CA.
With that as a backdrop, I want to let other owners know of some issues that I have encountered in hopes that sharing such information will lead us all to have and maintain a better product.

Aside from minor cosmetic issues that have been addressed there are two things that warrant mentioning here. The first is vacuum pump failures. I have had FIVE vacuum pumps fail. The last three have not even lasted 50 hours each. Now before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, I want you to know that this issue has been worked and continues to be worked by Cirrus and their engineers as well as with Airborne (pump manufacturer). Clearly, a solution has not been found. When the last pump failed, Del Monte Aviation noted some hoses that were kinked hoses and after some discussion with Cirrus a decision was made to replace not only the kinked hoses, but virtually everything in the vacuum system. The last pump still failed after only 43.6 Hobbs hours. Things being considered now are harmonics (related to my engine, prop (3 blade), and my specific avionics Â…‘A’ Package), heat on the pump, and filters. If anyone else has some ideas I’d bet Cirrus would like to hear them. Mind you, the Cirrus guys are pretty bright folks, but this problem seems a little baffling.

The other problem just happened to me today. The right door hinge (the lower one) gave way (broke). Fortunately, it broke as we were shutting down. If such a failure were to happen in flight I dread to think of what would have happened. Clearly the door would have been lost, which could have in turn damaged flight controls in the process! Whew! If in taxing the loss of either hinge could produce major damage. Cirrus had already spotted the potential problem and has a service bulletin out the correct the problem, but when my annual was done the new parts weren’t in so I left without the hinges being replaced. While my hinges will now be replaced for sure, it behooves each of you to check your hinges to make sure (if you haven’t replaced them) that you inspect them carefully.

Finally, I want to add that as one who was most vocal about not needing the standby vacuum pump as we had a rate-based auto pilot to turn to in the event of an emergency, I have to tell you that the backup system works extremely well. The only thing that tells you that the vacuum pump has failed is the red idiot light on the panel that comes on indicating you have had a vacuum failure, AND the amber light that indicates the standby vacuum pump is operating. Vacuum never drops and your instruments are rock solid.

This is a great plane. As I come up on my one year anniversary I can honestly tell you this is the best value in general aviation despite some problems. You all fly safely out there!

I’m currently flying a Mooney 201 and have had 6 vacuum failures in the last 150 hours! Very discouraging … not to mention losing a little confidence in the muck. We’ve gone through the entire system in a similar fashion and finally resorted to replacing the vacuum regulator. So far it has solved the problem. I wonder if Airborne is looking into that with great interest as they are eating some pumps!
At least we’ll only need to deal with this another year or so. Cirrus #365

8

I’d be very careful before I went to Sigma-Tek. I just got a vacuum driven DG, and it had a quality problem. The company was very uncooperative in fixing the problem. (The distributor and FBO were great!)E-mailed their president on their web site’s “e-mail the President” and haven’t ever gotten a response.

The first is vacuum pump failures. I have had FIVE vacuum pumps fail. The last three have not even lasted 50 hours each. Now before anyone gets their underwear in a wad, I want you to know that this issue has been worked and continues to be worked by Cirrus and their engineers as well as with Airborne (pump manufacturer). Clearly, a solution has not been found.

I don’t know what the warranty situation is with your plane passing the one year mark, but were I in your position I would install the Sigma Tek bi-directional vacuum pump in a heartbeat. It is good that Cirrus/Airborne are working this, but in the interim, you need a vacuum pump that functions! Given that they have not even identified the cause, I’d head for a different pump manufacturer. That would at least tell you if the unknown cause relates at all to the pump itself.

When the last pump failed, Del Monte Aviation noted some hoses that were kinked hoses and after some discussion with Cirrus a decision was made to replace not only the kinked hoses, but virtually everything in the vacuum system.

If this is now being done by Cirrus under warranty then you pretty well have to go along with it. But if nothing improves, Plan B is still out there. Am a little surprised more trouble shooting was not done. Kinked hoses in the wrong place can require the vacuum pump to work much harder than it is designed to. If that was the situation it should have been identified as such after the first pump failure.

9

The speaker grill is irratating as it does fall off.

I used some velcro to hold it on. I agree it is irritating, but easily fixed.

I see there is an optional AD to put a trim tab on the rudder. I assume this is so you can bend the tab to trim the plane for the most usual power setting you use in the cruise.
I had the option of putting it on, but declined. My plane is in trim; therefore, simply another item to the plane seemed foolish to me.

Out of interest the cost of the hundred hour inspection in Holland was about $1000 how does this seem by US standards.

About what you would expect here especially on the West Coast.

10

Robin - On N5841 we only have a warning light on Alternator #2 when taxiing.

The second alternator ‘no charge’ warning light glows on medium and low power settings. There is no problem with charging as this can be checked on the ammeter it is just the warning light system. I would be interested to know if others have this because I am told it cant be fixed.

11

The aux vac fuse is a problem on the check list because some people pull it because of the noise and to save power for the start, especially on a cold winter day. I put it on the Preflight check list to check the operation of the aux vac when I first turn on the master switch. Then I leave the circuit breaker out. Then I added pushing it in to the end of the Starting Engine check list right after turning the avionics switch on.

I have had no problems whatsoever with the transponder or vacum pump.

If mine does fail I hope the fuse is not pulled on the standby as I usually pull it when I check the lights on the walk round as it is noisy.I then sometimes forget to reset it.

12

I will be looking at my door hinge as like Walt the mod was not available when it was last in for service.

Robin, is there a mod already for the door hinge? It sounds like this issue is just appearing, and Rick (who posts as a Cirrus employee) sounds like this is the first he has heard of it.

13

Hi Robin,

The second alternator ‘no charge’ warning light glows on medium and low power settings. There is no problem with charging as this can be checked on the ammeter it is just the warning light system. I would be interested to know if others have this because I am told it cant be fixed.

Alternator #2 light is on at low RPM on N144CD (#0034), goes off while increasing power.

I have a draught through the door not bad enuogh to be a noise but the AD will be applied on the next service.

I’ve had 3 times a hissing sound on T/O above abort speed and had to turn back to close the right door. It’s the lower fixing rod, that, I’d think because of the shape of the white plastic ‘catch’ in the doorpost, easily slides ‘outside’ and leaves the door ajar, only held by the upper fixing rod. It’s hard to see from the pilot position, so when in doubt I seat the passenger(s) and walk around to make sure the lower door part is flush with the fuselage.

Out of interest the cost of the hundred hour inspection in Holland was about $1000 how does this seem by US standards.

I had the same price, but it was at the same shop… Seemed reasonable enough though.

Best regds from LFPX

Han

14

I spoke with a reliable source at the factory. They’re well aware of the hinge problem, have issued an SB (or was it an AD), and have the parts on order to fix it (longer screws that allow for a safety wire). There’s very little chance that the factory isn’t the first to hear about every problem. They’re certainly the first people I call when anything unusual happens, and they’re always concerned and helpful.

Robin, is there a mod already for the door hinge? It sounds like this issue is just appearing, and Rick (who posts as a Cirrus employee) sounds like this is the first he has heard of it.

15

The service bulletin ATA52-10 for installation of improved cabin door attachments (hinges i guess)

Recommended to be carried out within 60 hours or 6 months whichever is first.

Purpose. A condition exsists where the lower cabin door hinge attaching hardware may become looseallowing either cabin door to become dislodged while opening or closing.

Applies to serial numbers 1005 through 1034.

Of course if you havent had your plane yet allmost all the problems we talk about dont matter to you because they are sorted as soon as they are identified.