SR20 Landing Help

I’m still finding that sometimes after “touchdown” I bounce, and then begin to porpoise. I’ve always done a go-around when this happens, uneventfully. However, I’m still at somewhat of a loss to understand what’s causing the bouncing. My approach speed is pretty consistently 80 knots. I suspect I’m flareing a little too early, always concerned about a nose-gear first landing. Carrying a little power on touch-down seems to help - I think. (Possibly it’s causing the problem, but I don’t think so - it appears that if anything, the bounce doesn’t seem to happen as often with a smidge of power.)

Appreciate any input. John (my instructor) if you’re following this, please respond by my e-mail. Your e-mail address is at my office. Thanks!

I’m still finding that sometimes after “touchdown” I bounce, and then begin to porpoise. I’ve always done a go-around when this happens, uneventfully. However, I’m still at somewhat of a loss to understand what’s causing the bouncing. My approach speed is pretty consistently 80 knots. I suspect I’m flareing a little too early, always concerned about a nose-gear first landing. Carrying a little power on touch-down seems to help - I think. (Possibly it’s causing the problem, but I don’t think so - it appears that if anything, the bounce doesn’t seem to happen as often with a smidge of power.)

If you bounce, you’re either going too fast, or you’re dropping it in (can’t tell from the description if your bounce is due to hard landing or to excessive airspeed.)

A common mistake with high wing-loading airplanes is to start to round out to the flare too early. You simply do not have the excess lift that your 172 or Archer had to get away with this. What happens instead is that you develop a wicked sink rate and hit hard on the mains, and if you then bounce onto the nose gear you have accomplished what you set out to avoid.

I generally make my approach at 75 knots, power totally at idle, and wait until I can count the stones in the asphalt before flaring “with authority.” I then assume the position and wait; when the plane is done flying it will splat onto the runway and stay there. This approach isn’t for the faint of heart but does keep the float to a minimum while providing plenty of energy for the flare (though not much excess) and is good practice for dead-sticking it in. It’s also amazing how high you can be turning final and still land on the numbers with this technique. Once the power comes off and the plane bleeds off some energy, the nose drops down and the elevator ride begins!

A slightly less dramatic approach (which I do if I’ve got nervous passengers on board) is to carry some power into the flare, which makes the nose attitude a lot less dramatic and provides for a smoother transition into the flare. This may smooth things out for you by reducing your sink rate, but if you’re carrying 80 knots all the way down with power, you’re going to either have a wicked float, or you’ll set it down before it’s done flying, in which case you’ll bounce and balloon (and then stall it in.)

There are two critical bits to landing this plane. The first is to resist the urge to round out to the flare until you’re much closer to the ground than you are used to if you’ve been flying only light airplanes, as the early roundout will bleed off speed in a hurry, resulting in an arrival like a grand piano. The other is to find and hold the landing attitude. Compared to a 172, the plane feels much closer to the ground than it seems as though it should be, and the nose angle is not nearly as dramatic. Rather than pulling and pulling like a 172, find the attitude via sight picture, and then just hold that attitude. The plane will just drop on from there, and if you’re close to the ground you won’t hit very hard (or bounce.)

It’s really quite difficult to land this airplane on the nose gear, between the gear geometry, the sight picture (which makes you feel like the nose is lower than it is), and generous ground effect. My guess is that you’re too worried about the ground coming up, and then the sink rate develops and you don’t have enough elevator authority or energy left to arrest it.

Once you’ve gotten this down, you’ll find that 80 knots is really much too fast, as you’ll watch 1000 feet of runway disappear before touchdown, at which point you can start reducing your approach speed.

Hope this helps…

Actually, the way we do it is to go to an auto supply store and buy a set of those curb feelers that let you know when you are next to a curb while parallel parking a car. They only cost about 7 bucks, and sometimes 20% less with a mail-in coupon.

Mount them on the main gear so they hang straight down - about 6 inches below the tire. Flare close to the ground with manifold pressure at about 13 inches and hold back on the side stick just a pinch, and the SR20 will very slowly descend to the runway surface.

When the curb feel … uh, runway descender attenuators touch the runway, you will hear a noticeable scraping noise, at which point you reduce throttle completely. The ship will then provide you with the softest, smoothest, and guaranteed ooooh & aaah touchdown you will ever experience. Even the guys in the tower will say, “WOW, what a great landing”, and the babes will all admire your abs, too.

Oh, and don’t forget to pick up another set of those runway descender attenuators before your next flight, and you will continue to develop your reputation as the avowed “ace of the base” when it comes to landings.

We have complete documentation that this system is fail-proof, since we have never bounced an SR20 yet.

Forever yours in thoughtful faithfulness,

Your ever helpful counselors, Frick & Frack

I’m still finding that sometimes after “touchdown” I bounce, and then begin to porpoise. I’ve always done a go-around when this happens, uneventfully. However, I’m still at somewhat of a loss to understand what’s causing the bouncing. My approach speed is pretty consistently 80 knots. I suspect I’m flareing a little too early, always concerned about a nose-gear first landing. Carrying a little power on touch-down seems to help - I think. (Possibly it’s causing the problem, but I don’t think so - it appears that if anything, the bounce doesn’t seem to happen as often with a smidge of power.)

Appreciate any input. John (my instructor) if you’re following this, please respond by my e-mail. Your e-mail address is at my office. Thanks!

Andy,

Here are my thoughts, you just have too much speed, Dave describes it perfectly, I also like the idea of cutting the power off and bringing it in. People that can do that will walk away from a crash site because they practice everytime they landed. When things turn sour, you will do best with what you are comfortable with. Nice job Dave. Just keep having those Cirrus greeser touchdowns and we all will have a great Cirrus day.

Woor

I’m still finding that sometimes after “touchdown” I bounce, and then begin to porpoise. I’ve always done a go-around when this happens, uneventfully. However, I’m still at somewhat of a loss to understand what’s causing the bouncing. My approach speed is pretty consistently 80 knots. I suspect I’m flareing a little too early, always concerned about a nose-gear first landing. Carrying a little power on touch-down seems to help - I think. (Possibly it’s causing the problem, but I don’t think so - it appears that if anything, the bounce doesn’t seem to happen as often with a smidge of power.)

If you bounce, you’re either going too fast, or you’re dropping it in (can’t tell from the description if your bounce is due to hard landing or to excessive airspeed.)

A common mistake with high wing-loading airplanes is to start to round out to the flare too early. You simply do not have the excess lift that your 172 or Archer had to get away with this. What happens instead is that you develop a wicked sink rate and hit hard on the mains, and if you then bounce onto the nose gear you have accomplished what you set out to avoid.

I generally make my approach at 75 knots, power totally at idle, and wait until I can count the stones in the asphalt before flaring “with authority.” I then assume the position and wait; when the plane is done flying it will splat onto the runway and stay there. This approach isn’t for the faint of heart but does keep the float to a minimum while providing plenty of energy for the flare (though not much excess) and is good practice for dead-sticking it in. It’s also amazing how high you can be turning final and still land on the numbers with this technique. Once the power comes off and the plane bleeds off some energy, the nose drops down and the elevator ride begins!

A slightly less dramatic approach (which I do if I’ve got nervous passengers on board) is to carry some power into the flare, which makes the nose attitude a lot less dramatic and provides for a smoother transition into the flare. This may smooth things out for you by reducing your sink rate, but if you’re carrying 80 knots all the way down with power, you’re going to either have a wicked float, or you’ll set it down before it’s done flying, in which case you’ll bounce and balloon (and then stall it in.)

There are two critical bits to landing this plane. The first is to resist the urge to round out to the flare until you’re much closer to the ground than you are used to if you’ve been flying only light airplanes, as the early roundout will bleed off speed in a hurry, resulting in an arrival like a grand piano. The other is to find and hold the landing attitude. Compared to a 172, the plane feels much closer to the ground than it seems as though it should be, and the nose angle is not nearly as dramatic. Rather than pulling and pulling like a 172, find the attitude via sight picture, and then just hold that attitude. The plane will just drop on from there, and if you’re close to the ground you won’t hit very hard (or bounce.)

It’s really quite difficult to land this airplane on the nose gear, between the gear geometry, the sight picture (which makes you feel like the nose is lower than it is), and generous ground effect. My guess is that you’re too worried about the ground coming up, and then the sink rate develops and you don’t have enough elevator authority or energy left to arrest it.

Once you’ve gotten this down, you’ll find that 80 knots is really much too fast, as you’ll watch 1000 feet of runway disappear before touchdown, at which point you can start reducing your approach speed.

Hope this helps…

Andy,

Nice job Dave. Just keep having those Cirrus greeser touchdowns and we all will have a great Cirrus day.

Hmm, I do recall using the word “splat.”

Andy,

I was touch to use 80 on the final and to keep it tight in the pattern. 75 works for short field but bear in mind you are on the backside of the power curbe. There has been a lot of discussion on 80 vs 75 and prop strikes. It would be an interesting discussion to have here. For my 2 cents, hold 80 to the flare and flare firmly at the right altitude (you might be flaring a bit 2 high). Make sure u flare to what LOOKS like level attitude. It’s looks like the exact opposite of what we were taught in cessnas in flight school. If you over rotate and put the nose even slightly above the horizon u will climb with that 80 kt airspeed and drop it in. There have been some prop strikes. For what it’s worth I havent bounced once although it really takes some getting used to. You need to really fly this plane all the way down the runway.

What really helped during training was an approach where I flew the plane to 6 - 9 inches above the runway and just flew it the whole way, then did a go around without the mains ever touching. I would suggest having an instructor try this with u just to be safe.

my 2 cents.

Andy,

Nice job Dave. Just keep having those Cirrus greeser touchdowns and we all will have a great Cirrus day.

Hmm, I do recall using the word “splat.”