Thanks a bunch for this info! You pointed out several things I was considering too, plus some others I hadn’t thought of (WAAS, ADS-B).
What benefits does the DFC90 have over the STEC55? (I’ve not used autopilots yet so that’s all new to me.)
As for affording a 22, yes, I could but some of my pilot partners cannot. I agree, I’d rather have a 22 G2 (or 22 G3 Avidyne) than a 20 G3 Garmin, because over time I can improve my piloting skills but I can’t improve the engine or aircraft performance no matter how much I fly the plane.
In regard to using brokers, that would be a whole other convo thread. Suffice it to say, my experience has been checkered so it’s a complicating factor that is simpler to just do without.
Totally on board with Savvy… a great service and well worth it for a new plane owner like me.
Thanks to this forum and guys like you, I’ve become more informed and motivated than ever before after joining. One of the best purchases I’ve made! Thank you, thank you, thank you! [:D]
The DFC90 works using the AHRS as a primary source for the AP vs the turn coordinator so I find it smoother. It also has a number of modes not available to the STEC. For example:
climbing at an IAS (allows you to climb and keep CHTs in check)
Straight and level - will fly straight and level and recover from unusual attitudes (you still have to manage throttle)
I don’t have ADS-B - the GTN650s are just the nav/com units, they are touch screen and WAAS. I had them put in when I bought the plane and have been really happy with them. I also put in the PS Eng. PMA450 audio panel which is way ahead of the old Garmin.
I haven’t decided on ADS-B but I’m leaning towards swapping my transponder for a GTX345.
Finally, you asked about prop strikes - they are nasty, one of the pilots (I have a little club) who flew my plane had a prop strike a year ago, I used the opportunity to get a zero time reman engine and go to the 3 blade MT composite prop. This took 40lbs off the nose and improved climb and cooling substantially so if you find a 20 with that prop I’d take it. My total useful load is a bit under 900lbs
I think with a mission that’s typically under 300nm you can comfortably take wife and young kids, the longer end of that mission I’ll normally stop for fuel.
Sorry. Sensor Interface Unit or Digital Acquisition Unit. They are analog to digital converters that take the engine analog outputs (oil pressure, manifold pressure, EGT’s, etc…) and turn them into something the MFD can display. You’ll know it has an SIU if it has engine steam gauges. DAU if it doesn’t.
I’m not sure you have the right conclusion here. The K engine runs hotter. The TN has a dual waste gate system that requires some maintenance. But the TN is quite a bit more efficient. It’s BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption - a measure of fuel consumed per HP generated) is considerly better, so the biggest operation component of any aircraft, fuel, is less in a TN. Now there are other different.
In an aircraft there are always trade off’s for what seem to be the smallest things. Some TN owners are so happy they will not consider a trade up to a T. An Avidyne TN is a great value. That said based on what you’ve been saying I’m not sure any turbo is the right decision for you.
It is all a value to the buyer kind of thing. I think the best value out there is a light less optioned G1. They are light and fast. Many think the G2 is the best value in aviation. Well equipped and relatively cheap. Sure, every new model year is better. Where do the improv,wants vs price stop being a value to you? Only you can answer that.
This is for Avidyne Equipped SR20/22 only - Perspective has it all built in already.
For me, there are three major advantages to the DFC90 auto pilot over the Stec 55x
Envelope protection - If you dial in a climb of 1000 ft/minute into the Stec it will try to do it, even if it cannot. The result is the plane continuing to pitch up trying to keep the climb rate while the airspeed drops off. This could result in a stall or spin if you are not paying attention. On the other hand, the DFC90 will not allow that to happen. If you dial in a 1000ft/minute climb it will do the best it can (say maybe only 500ft/minute) without stalling the airplane.
Indicated airspeed climb. You can set in an indicated airspeed (say 120 kts) and the DFC90 will give you the best climb rate to maintain that speed. Sweet!
“Straight and Level” Button. Great feature. If you somehow get disoriented or lose command/control of the aircraft, you can press the Straight and Level button and the DFC 90 will take over and level the plane. This is also great for your passenger if you become incapacitated for any reason.
A few more thoughts…
If the engine has been run properly there is a good chance that you will get way beyond TBO so don’t immediately discount high hour aircraft until you have the engine logs analyzed. To Overhaul or replace your engine will cost between $30k and $50k - Others will have better numbers on that for you.
To replace the “Stack” (Dual Garmin 650’s or Avidyne 440’s, ADS-B transponder, DFC90 Autopilot) it will cost about $30K-$40K (again, others will have better numbers but I know I’m close). If you find a high time plane with a new “stack” that might be a great value!
If you have any intention of moving up to an SR22 in the future, you might want to consider making that move now.
Oh, one more thing - Insurance will be based on the least experienced/highest risk partner.
Everything Roger just said is right on the money. To “answer” the question in your thread title based on what you’ve said so far I think going G2 or earlier is pretty much a no brainier. If you did want to go turbo the Tornado Alley planes could be great for you but it sounds like you wouldn’t be using them to their full advantage if you don’t want to fly high.
Going with an older plane you will not find many SR20s with air conditioning but there are after market systems available to add it. If I were you I would be looking at G2 SR20s and G1-G2 SR22 NAs.
Props are complicated. They produce thrust, they also produce drag. All things being equal a two blade is a little faster in cruise. The three blade has little faster climb performance. The three blade is a little heavier on the nose. The 3 blade looks cooler.
The length difference will not materially lessen the chance for a prop strike. They mostly happen from boinced landings, PIO (porpoise) landings or doing something like leaving the tow bar on. On paper it seems probable but in reality A little larger arc won’t really make a difference in those situations.
If I had a choice I would pick a MT 3 blade but there isn’t many of those out there. 20’s are usually not as modified as the 22’s.
Jason: I’ve never flown a two-blade SR20 but I think most SR20 owners will tell you they’d wish for better climb performance before better cruise speed. The three blade definitely looks cooler too! [:)]
There is plenty of clearance with a 2 bladed prop. What you may find on the G1 and G2 -20’s is that with a 2-blader, the prop blades will hit the wheelpant before the tip hits the ground. The nose gear is angled forward and when it bends under stress of a nose-first landing, the tip of the wheel pant will be pushed into the spinning arc of the propeller. That said, this is a very minor problem. Here’s why: unlike the -22’s, the CG on a -20 allows one to have full elevator authority even as the plane stalls onto the runway(I call those “C172 type landings”). Landing nose first or porpoising is very rare. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a -20 porpoise on landing. I’ve seen plenty of Warriors and C172 do that but never a Cirrus.
The danger of hitting the wheelpant tip is still there but it comes from a different “angle”. The nose gear dampenning is done with a set of rubber pucks. As they pucks age, they get thinner and the nose gear starts to lower. At some point, it comes very close to the props so that hitting a bump on a taxiway can send the wheelpant into the prop. Proper maintenance is essential here.
It is possible to porpoise the 20, or any Cirrus, especially if you try to force the nose down to land at an airspeed higher than needed. The key is to hit the 75 (SR20) or 80(SR22) over the fence speed, and hold the landing attitude, or initiate a go around. “172” stalling it on landings risk dragging the tail, and should also be avoided.
As for prop clearance, I have a two-blade propeller, and the only issue with clearance has been the nose wheel pucks, which wear out, compress, and need to be replaced; at annual your mechanic should measure the ground clearance, and if less than 9", you will likely need new pucks. If your “arrival” managed to flex the front gear more than 9", I would think you might have a few more problems than how many blades your propeller has…
As an SR20 owner, yes, climb is more important to me than speed. Specifically climb in warm weather where the climb rate has to be kept down to keep the CHTs down. I switched from 3-blade Hartzell metal to 3-blade MT composite to save 40lb off the nose and move the CG back. My G2 wouldn’t hold two 200lb adults in the front and full fuel without being nose heavy. When flying with a CFI, I used to have to put 40lb rock salt in the baggage compartment and limit fuel to keep the CG within bounds. With the MT prop (and replacing the Iskra starter with heavier Energizer), CG is not a problem any more.
I just spent over a year doing the same thing you are doing. Finally, pulled the trigger in March. I ended up finding an '06 22-G2 GTS.
My conclusions and thoughts for you: I had a potential partner but that didn’t materiize so I went alone. In Your case, could you be a majority partner if you wanted to upgrade to the 22 vs 20?
Most airplanes that I was looking at were either going to A: need an overhaul or B: had just had one. I went with Option B. I also repacked the chute after I bought. Was better for my situation. Could you and your partners eat this after-purchase expense if you had to?
a/c. I’m based in South FL. It was a must (want) for me.
Avionics: Mine came with a single WAAS 430 and a regular 430. Also had the DFC90. Doubt I will significantly upgrade the stack anytime soon other than ADSb.
Mission: Mine is primarily East of Texas and the SE. I wanted to be able to make some legs nonstop with just the wife and me. The 22 gives us that option before physiological needs kick in. What will be your primary use of the airplane!!
My contact info is listed if I can be of any help. Good luck. Welcome to COPA, best $65 I have ever spent.
