That comment about the cinch mechanism prompts a faint recollection that there was a service bulletin for the seat belt buckles. But that would have been in the first 5 years of production, if I’m right, and not in the era of a Perspective aircraft.
Still, please take a selfie and show us what happens to your seatbelt.
Cheers
Rick
I have tried allot of things to stop that seatbelt from riding up to my nipples. If I really pull the lap belt tight it works until the discomfort is on my mind more than flying.
One of the latest ideas I tried was buying a couple of clamps and clamping the shoulder strap so it would stop pulling the lap belt up. It does work but when you sit upright your resting on the clamps which is a PITA.
I think this has more to do with how high your shoulders are when seated because if you’re just the right height and shoulders are exactly as high the shoulder strap you’re helping the shoulder strap reel up in turn lifting the lap belt.
Rick,
You are correct. The SB predates Perspective by a number of years.
I can only see three ways it can ride up to your nipples:
You put it on way too loose.
Your nipples are way too saggy.[;)]
The buckle adjustment is slipping.
I suspect you need to focus primarily on number 3, assuming you have ruled out 1 and 2!
One simple trick which could be worth trying is to apply a large (1.5 - 2 ") paper clip (preferably plastic for safety) over the 2 straps on each side of the lap sash, immediately adjacent to the buckle, after you have adjusted the length. This may provide enough extra friction to reduce the slipping. I haven’t tried it myself, but thought it simple enough to try to avoid what sounds like a real bother.
Hopped into my plane this afternoon and took these photos.
First, the typical position for my seat and lap belt. No airbags. Seat positioned so I have about 2 inches between my knees and bolster (in a G0 aircraft).
Seat belt never moves up from this position on my lap. So, I noticed the plastic inserts from the service bulletin that increase tension on the belt.
Do your seatbelt buckles have this feature?
Cheers
Rick
No offense, but you may have missed his first post where he said "My physical build is trim so I don’t have a big stomach to help keep the harness from riding up. " [A]
No offense taken. My partner Molly has an extremely thin physical build and her seat belt does not ride up either.
As I recall the earliest days of my Cirrus experience, the seat belts did ride up because the tensioner didn’t hold the belt from loosening – until those plastic inserts forced the tensioner to remain in place.
Now, once in place, we cannot loosen the belts without undoing the buckle. That is, the belts are cinched down tight across our thighs and when that tight, we can’t rotate the buckle enough to let the belt slip around the tensioner. So, we need to undo the buckle, pull on the belt with the buckle at 90 degrees to the belt, and get some slack, then reposition.
All in all, a very satisfactory and comforting security.
Cheers
Rick
Cheers
Rick
Yes, my March 2003 airplane did not have them and Cirrus made the little rubber plugs available later that year IIRC. The very early ones were flesh colored, as you showed. They became standard equipment at that point and were subsequently all black.
I need to work on a “lap belt position holder”. It reminds me of a cheers episode when Norm walks into the bar and after the bar yells “Norm!” how are ya? His reply is I am at my perfect weight, if I was 8 feet tall. [:D]
That would be called a 5-point harness, as we have in the Eclipse. A nice touch is that you can release the shoulder belts separately from the uni-buckle, e.g during cruise.
Thanks guys. I’ll fly an SR-20 this Tuesday, try again to figure out this harness mystery, and report back…
Hey gang,
I haven’t flown a Cirrus again yet to try corrections to my safety harness issue. But, I told a buddy of mine, who just came back into town, who owns an SR-22 about my problem with the safety harness riding up, and that I think it’s because of my height and my inclining the seat back to get enough head room. He’s at best of average height so I figured this issue would be news to him. Instead, he said, “Yes! That’s so annoying! Let me show you what I did…” So he took me to his airplane and showed me his shoulder straps. He’d installed seat belt clips (not sure what they’re really called) on the shoulder straps that keep the inertia reels from retracting the straps past the clips. They’re small enough that they go through the seat cushion slots and stop against the inertia reel rollers. So they are not even seen much less felt when sitting in the seat. What I’m calling clips are the hardware that belt straps run through, and loop around, to provide a means of adjusting the strap’s length. He’s installed soft vinyl tubing over the two ends to provide friction against the belts so they stay in place. I should have taken a photo. He said when he bought the airplane new he asked Cirrus about it and they just said that’s they way they are…
Anyway, his Cirrus is a 2004 model but it has the tan rubber inserts in the lap belt cinch mechanism described in this thread. He said they weren’t enough – that he still needed these clips on the shoulder straps.
Now I’m not so sure this is just my seatback angle. I’m going to make myself some of these clips I can temporarily install in the Cirrus’ I’m renting. I’ll flight test them on Tuesday. I’ll still also look at changing my seat geometry…
It amazes me that with so many years of refinement of the airplane’s design that the Cirrus team has not corrected this issue. I could be as simple as going with slightly weaker springs in the inertia reels.
That should be primary. For one thing, if your knees are kissing the bolster it is unsafe.
Yes, I’ll see if I can fly with the seat farther aft and sit more erect without hitting my head. But trust me, the annoyance and distraction of the harness presents more of a safety of flight issue for me right now…
Valin, this comment seems to suggest that two forces are at work.
First, the harness exerts significant force as you move forward and backward such that the mechanisms pull on the lap belt. Do I understand that force correctly?
Second, the lap belt extends in response to that retraction force so that the buckle can move up over your torso to a position much higher than your lap. Do I understand that scenario correctly?
I guess, without photos, I’m struggling to understand the mechanisms that create the safety of flight issue.
Cheers
Rick
Yes Rick, you’ve described what’s going on adequately. In order to appreciate the distraction, next time you go flying and are doing touch and goes, loosen the harness’s lap belts so the latch buckle raises up to your lower rib cage. Let me know if that’s not annoying and distracting while you’re flying… It’s also surely not the way you’d want the belts in a crash.
Valin, your description of annoyance and distraction matches our experience before the flesh-colored tensioner kit was installed. The lap portion of the belts would loosen on their own. Could be just from turning around to reach something behind the seats, could be from the shoulder harness, could be just making yourself comfortable. Problem fixed with the service bulletin.
Cheers
Rick
You are posting on the Guest forum, so we don’t have much information about you. What vintage of SR20 are you flying?
May I encourage you to rejoin and gain access to all of the Cirrus knowledge from the COPA community on the member side?
Cheers
Rick
Hi Rick,
I’m flying a 2009 SR-20 (N21XJ) that I lease from Independence Aviation at the Rocky Mountain Metro Airport (KBJC) near Boulder, Colorado. And, I just learned it went down for maintenance for a malfunctioning alternator so my flight tomorrow is off.
I’m flying the SR-20 to stay current in preparation for the first flight of a Lancair Legacy RG that my wife and I have been building in our spare time for years. So once we’ve got it flying in a few months I won’t likely be flying a Cirrus much. This looks like an excellent pilot community and if I were going to be flying Cirrus’ for the long term I’d definitely join.
In my day job I’m an aerospace engineer and work for the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston. I’m on assignment in Colorado helping one of our commercial human spaceflight partners. Flying wise: commercial, instrument, ASMEL, AGI, IGI, and an expired CFI.
On the point of the lap belt cinch mechanism inserts, I noted that my buddies Cirrus had them installed, and he said he still had that problem. The airplane is astronaut Jim Voss’ Cirrus SR-22, which he purchased new – I think a 2004 model.
Anyway, with my available Cirrus down for maintenance for the week, it will likely be early next week before I get to continue with my harness experiments…
Thanks everyone for your help.
VT, after climb to cruise altitude, I slide the shoulder straps off my shoulders and lower and snug up the lap belt. I find this much more comfortable and can slide them back in place in an instant.
