P Static Issue

i have been considering buying a cirrus, but i have heard of some chronic problems. one is a “p static issue”, where various planes have suffered radio loss while flying thru rain-anyone have info on this. i have also heard of repetative brake failures, and an above normal problem with prop strikes and the new style door popping open in flight-any info on this. i would appreciate all feedback.

There is no greater incidence of P static in cirrus airplanes compared to any other. Static electricity build up is a “fact of life” in any airplane.
Brake failurea are mostly due to operator error. If you do not ride the brakes, your chance of failure is no higher than any other aircraft. The brakes used on the Cirrus fleet are the same as multiple other models.
Open doors are an occasional problem. There is no safety issue or intereference of flight characteristics. With proper adjustment, the problems are fixed.
I do not believe there is an abnormal high number of prop strikes. certainly Mooney has more. If you make improper landings in any plane, a prop strike is possible. Nothing unusual about a Cirrus to make it more likely.
If you are considering a Cirrus, you should fly one and see for yourself. What other planes are you considering?

Ditto Brian’s response. Like many other pilots, I have flown many, many makes and models. While I have only hd my Cirrus for 4.5 months and 140 hobbs hours - it pales any other GA aircraft in its class. My 310 sits on the ramp for sale, and it takes all my will power to just take it for an occasional flight to keep it from rusting away. I had one door popping incident on the way back from the factory - and it was simply that I had not closed it well enough. It is not an accident that this plane is the best sellng plane in GA.

If you know the person that owns the plane in Az then as far as I know and the rumblings on COPA that has been the worst incident of P Static. I don’t think the fleet has been around long enough to categorically say that Cirrus has more or less p static issues then other planes.

On the brakes again the truth is probably been somewhere in the middle. There have been problems and whether that is owner induced or not it is hard to say.

I think the bigger issue on a Cirrus and all other all electrical airplanes is the electric system itself and the PFD/MFD issues. You ought to really find out if the other planes that you are looking at are having similar failure rates with the screens and things like alternators.

I don’t think there is any comparison between the 182 and a Cirrus.

Doc: I have been following COPA for 2 years—almost every day----very familiar with all the problem postings and I can say that Cirrus is one of the most committed GA companies to making the Cirrus the safest airplane in GA history! A big boast----but in several months, when they get to 2,000 units flying, I believe they will be able to say that Cirrus makes the safest GA plane in the history of aviation.
They have a rigerous QC program that has gotten much better over the past months, they have brought in very talented senior management team and are gearing up for an ultimate production rate of 4.000 planes annually.
I have been on the sidelines watching to be sure, in my own mind that they are in fact building the best GA plane with the latest technology----and this last weekend at M3, we bought a new SR22 GTS. This is the ultimate vote of confidence!! My advice, buy one.

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i have been considering buying a cirrus, but i have heard of some chronic problems.


Yah, all these people were so unhappy they flew all the way to Duluth to complain!

[;)]

In reply to:


i have been considering buying a cirrus, but i have heard of some chronic problems. one is a “p static issue”, where various planes have suffered radio loss while flying thru rain-anyone have info on this. i have also heard of repetative brake failures, and an above normal problem with prop strikes and the new style door popping open in flight-any info on this. i would appreciate all feedback.


Whats up Doc?
I’ll try to give you some more info on the issues you raised:
P-Static
Yes it is a problem. As a “plastic” airplane there are many issues relating to the structure to build, hold and discharge static electricity in a predictable way. Cirrus has taken a part by part, issue by issue approach to dealing with the problem but candidly admit they do not fully understand it. At our recent COPA Migration in Duluth Cirrus spoke openly and candidly about this and specifically cited your friend in Arizona’s airplane as the worst of being haunted by this static problem.
As it stands now, Cirrus has not been able to replicate some of the problems and so therefore are unable to fix them yet. I can say however, that they did buy my friend a new transponder (out of warranty) when his got fried in a videotaped p-static encounter.
Brake Failures
About a year ago thee wasa Service Bulletin issued to inspect the brake lines for chafing against the wheel fairings. The cost to comply was covered by Cirrus.
Many other brake failures seem to be directly attributable to overheated brakes. These are standard Cleveland brakes as the C182 and Pipers are so equipped. Being tightly faired doesn’t allow for much ability to dissipate the heat on the ground after a heavy stop or if one rides the brakes while taxiing.
Same thing happens with a B747 and the same has happened to me on a Comanche 180 when I let the pads get too thin.
Prop Strikes
The landing gear is designed to absorb the impact of a vertical descent under the airframe parachute. So the landnig gear is sprung as opposed to oleos found on the C182 nose gear and the rubber donuts on the Mooney.
A severely botched landing in a Cirrus may indeed result in a prop strike. The same landing will also buckle the firewall on the C182 and bend the frame on a Mooney. Taildraggers and many other panes have propstrikes and they are ALL the result of a severly botched landing.
Door Openings in Flight

The original Cirrus used a deadbolt pin type latching mechanism that some found hard to use. Especially if the door pins and mechanisms were not properly lubricated and adjusted from the factory. Most have been now and the original doors close relatively easily and very securely.

During the interim, Cirrus came up with a slam the door like a car latching mechanism and a push button release.

These doors were also not always delivered from the factory properly adjusted. While easy to close, some did pop open in flight.

However, once this has happened once, the local Cirrus Service Center would have taken the time to adjust the door latching mechisam properly like it should have been from the factory.

So, once adjusted right, it latches securely and easily.

Whatever may be said about the Cirrus doors, I can tell you that they are as good or bad as any other GA door latching!

As for deciding whether Cirrus, Cessna or Mooney it would depnd on your mission.

Cessna C182 is better if yo plan on operations out of shorter rough or grass trips on a regular basis or have the terrainrequirements for the turbo 182. Speed on the T182 is no better han a normally aspirated SR22 G2.

The Mooneys ARE faster, fly higher and have longer legs. They are significantly more money and I’d say you have to be a better and more current pilot to fly the Mooney as safely as you would the Cirrus or C182. The Mooneys are a lot more expensive for what you get though.

The Cirrus SR22 stikes a good balance between them all and the CAPS parachute makes them safer in terms of fatal accident risk as a second engine IMHO.

The Garmin G100 is pretty cool and if you are a gadget guy you will find plenty to play with there. Get the Skywatch because you’ll need it to keep an eye outside the cockpit.

The Avidyne is a nicer execution for our class of aircraft again IMHO but they seems to have a pretty sketchy reliability history and so far no real action to resolve the problems has seemed to be forthcoming to their some 2000 owners thus far.

So, there are some other thoughts to consider in your fun decision!

I had the p-static issue twice, and it’s not good, but training and procedures allow the condition to be non-life threatening.

I’d be much more concerned over the PFD/MFD issues we’ve been encountering. I have my original pair and will hang onto them for dear life as I’ve had minimal problems. The thought of getting a “reconditioned” one back from Avidyne scares the heck out of me. But alas, this is NOT a Cirrus issue as much as Avidyne.

So, for my two cents, until Lancair gets their thermawing, or the Diamond twin comes to the US, Cirrus had the lead and I’m sticking with my SR22.

Oh yea, a REALLY big edge that the Cirrus has over all the others - COPA!

brian-i have demo’d an sr 22, a mooney ovation, and a turbo 182. certainly, the cirrus flew well. i noticed upon landing a lack of braking power, compared to my present plane (a turbo aztec) and both the mooney and the cessna. a friend of mine has an sr 22 in az. and he states he had the p-static problem for over a year-eventually cirrus worked out some kind of exchange deal for him.

I have 700 hours on my November-03 SR-22 with the original brakes and my service center says they still show little wear. So I obviously think the brakes are fine.

I have had two P-static issues in my 18 months of ownership. 1st was an e-max failure and ELT activation over Bowling Green, KY in the first few months of ownership that has not reoccurred since the OAT grounding strap SB was accomplished. 2nd was loud static (for about 3 minutes) in the intercom on the way home from the Duluth Migration-2 last year, in HEAVY rain. It has not happened again with about 10% of my flying in IMC and several trips through equally HEAVY rain.

I do not see how anyone could have a prop strike without making a mistake or taxiing on very uneven ground.

You could not pay me to change to any other airplane for similar money. I have looked (and continue to watch) the Lancair, Mooney, and others, but right now there is just nothing else out there that would satisfy me. I would love a faster, higher, pressurized version of what I have now, but am not willing to pay over 2 million dollars, for less avionics, with the new VLJs on the horizon. The speed, comfort, visibility, avionics, and clutter-free panel make this plane a joy to fly.

While not trouble free, Cirrus has satisfied every warranty issue I have encountered and I expect that to continue. Unless you really need more than 4 seats or frequent unimproved runways this is still the plane I recommend.

I hope this is helpful and good luck with your decision.

SteveG.

Of the 3 planes you have demoed, I do not think there is any chice at all. The Cirrus is a better performer than the 182, unless weight is an issue. The turbo version will likely have more ebgine issues. Without oxygen, the 182 will be less efficient unless you are at O2 altitudes. The Mooney is much more complex, more expensive and I do not think the Garmin G1000 is as intutitive as the Avidyne.
Your Cirrus concerns are really quite minor and based on more folklore than fact. As I have said, the Cirrus does not use “Cirrus” brakes. They use Clevland brakes as do thousands of other planes. If you had a “mushy” brake experience, it does not represent the fleet.
Sounds like you need a Cirrus.
If you DO have ANY problems, the factory support is terrific. You will get none of that from Cessna or Mooney.

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I have 700 hours on my November-03 SR-22 with the original brakes and my service center says they still show little wear. So I obviously think the brakes are fine.


Dang - and I thought I was the old brake champ with 570 hours on my original brakes and still going strong. Seems I’m just a piker!

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I have had two P-static issues in my 18 months of ownership. 1st was an e-max failure and ELT activation over Bowling Green, KY in the first few months of ownership that has not reoccurred since the OAT grounding strap SB was accomplished. 2nd was loud static (for about 3 minutes) in the intercom on the way home from the Duluth Migration-2 last year, in HEAVY rain. It has not happened again with about 10% of my flying in IMC and several trips through equally HEAVY rain.


No p-static problems in my airplane, but I don’t spend much time in the rain out here in Santa Barbara.

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I do not see how anyone could have a prop strike without making a mistake or taxiing on very uneven ground.


The airplane is easy to land. I think most prop strikes are from PIO due to excessive speed on final, a disease not limited to Cirri.

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You could not pay me to change to any other airplane for similar money. I have looked (and continue to watch) the Lancair, Mooney, and others, but right now there is just nothing else out there that would satisfy me. I would love a faster, higher, pressurized version of what I have now, but am not willing to pay over 2 million dollars, for less avionics, with the new VLJs on the horizon. The speed, comfort, visibility, avionics, and clutter-free panel make this plane a joy to fly.


I sold a Bonanza to get my SR22 and have not regretted the decision one bit.

Just look at how many hours we have on our airplanes. Steve with 700 on a 2 1/2 year old airplane and me with 570 in 27 months. Do you think we love to fly these birds? Just on the comfort basis alone I routinely do long trips I would not have done in my Bonanza. And LOP I have done 900nm legs with over an hour reserve. How about Duluth to Santa Barbara in a day with one stop. (Yes, Westbound!)

Congrats on the new GTS, as you know this is my Second new Cirrus. I was really attached to my SR-20. But I LOVE my GTS. Having the weather and all approach plates built in make me much more at ease flying. My SR-22 Rocks, it looks cool, flys fast, lands nice and has a good range and payload. It is also much bigger than the Diamond products, one of my good friends is a diamond salesman. He also loves my GTS. He couldn’t believe that I flew direct from Little Rock to M3 non-stop in 4 hours 20 minutes. I called when I landed and he didn’t believe that I was in Duluth.

Thanks Jim!! Denise and I are VERY excited!!!
Looking like Aug 10th for delivery day
(serial number 1555)—so I am busy getting the IFR rating in Morristown, NJ–will also be using the full motion sim from Phil Ferrante/Jim Clutter!

Now this is really funny!!! See myself going from DLH to ESC for family business. Is this, what they call a cluster f___k?
Manfred

Cool post Curtis, I was checking it out and I see my plane, 205JP on the Iowa-Missouri border. As I looked around in the panhandle of Texas is my “old” 2004 20 5129J headed west. Pat if you read this you were missed at M3.

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with 700 on a 2 1/2 year old airplane


Actually, a 1-1/2 year old airplane. And I used to think that was really something until I read how much Ilan was flying.

SteveG

I’ll second what you say about COPA. COPA is a huge advantge for Cirrus. It is a great community and Mike and the boys do an awesome job.

thanx chuck, and the rest of you who took the time to answer my question. i have been flying for about 15 years, and have about 3000 hours-i presently fly a 77 turbo aztec, and let me tell you-it is a maintainance nightmare. the reason that i asked my question is because i have thanfully sold my aztec, and i am evaluating various new singles, obviously with a warranty, to replace my twin. i demo’d the cirrus-plane flew nicely, was quick, nice avionics. my average long trip is 200-300 miles, so between 180 and 160 knots, there is not much difference to me as far as flying time. from your answers though, it seems that when you buy a cirrus, you are buying into various problems that the company, and the avionics supplier (avidyne) have not solved yet. the p static and avionics problems seems to be not all that uncommon. i don’t want to go from one set of problems to a whole new set, for a bunch more money. it seems that the cirrus is a work in evolution, and when they get all the problems ironed out, it seems that it will be quite a plane. but for now, the old reliable skylane, which has been around for 50 or so years, seems to be the best plane for me.they have made significant improvements on the 182, and for a bit over 300k, you get a new one with a glass g1000 panel. i thank you all for your informative feedback, and wish you all luck with your plane and good health and safe flying.

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I’ll second what you say about COPA. COPA is a huge advantge for Cirrus. It is a great community and Mike and the boys do an awesome job.


Will,

Thanks - but don’t forget our ladies, who work for COPA directly and indirectly. Barbara Fornell is a Director and our Treasurer… she keeps our financial wheels turning every day. Thanks to her husband, Glenn, for letting us use her time so freely. Same goes for the wives of “the boys” - without their patience… well, you know.

  • Mike.