I guess I was thinking that the TKS system would increase the utility in that I could be safer when climbing on top and/or coming down to land. Now, with the C172, even if I know that the tops are at 12,000 ft or that above 12,000 ft the temperature is -25, I do not go because I do not know how much ice I could get by the time I get there (plus, with my C172 there’s no way I can get that high). I thought that with the TKS I could now take on such a scenario. I’d appreciate if you could provide me some more insights on this issue. Thanks,
The TKS system is not approved for flight in known icing conditions. It is used as a “last ditch” measure to get you out of ice that you encounter unexpectedly. No single engine airplane handles ice well anyway. So the TKS will not “allow” you to do things you would not do without it. It is like the parachute. It is something you do not want to use because it means you are in trouble already.
All right guys: based on the your more recent comments re: the use of the deicing I understand that I may have overstimated the capabilities of the system… 
Could you please be more descriptive? Thanks
In reply to:
All right guys: based on the your more recent comments re: the use of the deicing I understand that I may have overstimated the capabilities of the system…
Could you please be more descriptive? Thanks
NO. You have not overestimated the capabilities of the system. You have overestimated your understanding of flying.
Sorry if I sound harsh. Never mind. I’m not sorry. If we are anything as an organization, COPA is about safety.
You have 550 hrs and a licence and a 172. You want to go fast, you want to go high, you want to go through ice, you fly a 172, you want to understand cost of operation, yet have said nothing about hours of use, type of use, hangered or not, etc. That licence unfortunately allows you to do dumb things and great things. If your mistakes don’t kill you, then you will share this wisdom with others. Too many of our friends and people that you don’t even know have been killed seeking the goals to which you aspire without having the understanding of which, you must obtain.
You are considering spending over $450,000 but haven’t taken the time or effort or $50 to JOIN the Member side of COPA.
So, the answer is NO. Join COPA. Learn from the hundreds of thousands of posts and people who live, and breath aviation.
Our members learn, make mistakes, and know far too many who have died. Not in valore, but because of a question they didn’t ask, or a problem that wasn’t thought through properly.
So, NO. When you have finished reading every post, including the archives, you will have the answers that you seek, and if you want to discuss more, we’ll be here for you.
My SR 22 has no TKS. The advantage is the plane is less expensive to begin with, has less to go wrong, and isn’t flying around with the extra weight of the system. I don’t have to buy and store TKS fluid. The wings are easier to keep clean. And most importantly, the plane is about 4 knots faster than an identical TKS equipped plane. Also I am not tempted to fly in icing conditions.
Fabrizio
Dennis is coming across as a bit harsh. But that’s just Dennis’ style–we all know him as a delightful and whimsical guy who occasionally expresses his opinions in a curmudgeonly way for effect.
I also encourage you to join COPA if you’re at all interested in the Cirrus. In my opinion it’s the best value in aviation in terms of education, information, entertainment, and camaraderie. I don’t own a Cirrus but really enjoy the forums. I’m sure the group would welcome you too.
Yes, the Cirrus TKS system is not certified for flight into known icing. It is there as an escape mechanism if unforecast/unanticipated ice is encountered. It is most prudently viewed in the same way as the airframe parachute: don’t launch if you’re planning on needing it. There are some single-engine GA planes out there that can be certified for known icing–Mooney Ovation and/or Bravo come to mind–but even in those craft it is wise to be humble. Moderate-to-severe icing is not to be trifled with in any plane, even turbines.
In reply to:
NO. You have not overestimated the capabilities of the system. You have overestimated your understanding of flying.
Sorry if I sound harsh. Never mind. I’m not sorry. If we are anything as an organization, COPA is about safety.
So we think…and about chastizing newbies. Keep it up and no one will want to ask these questions.
Sorry Fabrizio… The TKS system should only be considered as an emergency escape device… like the parachute.
There is no nudge-nudge-wink-wink about the lack of “known icing certification”. I suspect that climbing through 12,000’ of freezing clouds in an SR22 would not happen as the airframe really slows down with the non- de-iced areas like the gear, wingtips etc.
I’d suggest that the best thing you could do would be to email/call one of the nicest Cirrus Sales Managers Jon Duplaise jduplaise@cirrusdesign.com and ask him to arrange a free demo flight in both airplanes.
See which one you like. But be prepared to buy because once you fly these planes all of your rational thinking will go out the window. [;)]
PLENTY of us like that on the members side!
Hey Dennis:
Just about 2-1/2 years ago I was green as a goard and taking delivery of my “TKS equipped Cirrus”. Even though David had taught me as much as he could about ice - considering we were training in Florida - I wanted to hear from pilots up North who really knew what ice was all about.
Unfortunately, during my delivery I heard some “hot dogs” at UND talking about how well the SR-22 handled ice. This is exactly what my rookie mentality wanted to hear. Because, you know, I had to be able to fly in Indiana year-round and these “guys” are confirming that the TKS system is a capable one.
Luckily, my common sense realized there was conflicting information and I needed to learn a lot more before following in the footsteps of the “hot dogs”. I know I conveyed some pretty stupid assumptions when asking questions about subjects I needed to learn more about. I am sure I did it with you. Hey, I could be doing it right now!
Here is what I know about ice. Do not get anywhere NEAR icing in a Cirrus, unless you have multiple outs. An out DOES NOT include TKS or the parachute. Also have multiple outs when flying anywhere near thunderstorms or passengers who just ate a bunch of chili.[:)]
Thank you guys for sharing your views. At this point, it seems to me that I should learn more about the SR20. Your input was quite helpful.
I just don’t get why Dennis is so arrogant in his various postings. Afterall, it seems to me fair to be able to ask a few questions before joining. And when I join, it will be because of the constructive input and empathy that I received from you all and not for the scolding received from someone who does not know how seriously and safely I take flying. Thanks again and regards,
In reply to:
I just don’t get why Dennis is so arrogant in his various postings.
It’s not arrogant, it’s angry.
When you join, you will have the opportunity to review several thousand posts about Cirrus and other pilots who have died because they were in a rush, were willing to fly high and fast and/or they thought the TKS system would save them; it didn’t.
Fab:
“Dennis the Menace” is just an attorney [;)] Don’t tell him we told you he is really a nice guy—will ruin his reputation!! [:)]
On TKS–good comments by all. Great advice on joining COPA to get great info and to meet the best batch of pilots!
I also suggest you get to know your local Cirrus rep—get a flight in the 20 and 22, talk to as many people as you can----enjoy the buying process—and if at all possible, go to the Cirrus plant and talk to the folks that are actually building the planes—they are an awesome bunch of dedicated people who really do care that they are building/always improving the best damned GA plane in the world!
Fly safe and welcome! [:)]
Fabrizio:
Believe me Dennis is one of the best guys on the membership side of the forums. You’ll enjoy and benefit from any one of his posts.
I think he’s still in lawyer cross examination mode right now and you’re on the witness stand.[:O] So…if you want to get good information before you buy…join COPA. If you want to make an irrational purchase but eventually love your decision anyways…take a demo ride in an Cirrus. If ya need a good lawyer in Florida…Dennis[;)]
I just joined, but for some reasons I was not able to keep my user name fsommazzi…I lost an ‘i’…I am fsommazz now… I look forward to read the members-only postings, learn, and get to know Dennis…
Fabrizio:
Congratulations! I’ll look for you on the other side.
Also, find your rep from the Cirrus website and book a demo flight.
Good luck and definetely fly safe!
Thank you for joining. I am not very good at being mean.
Dennis, I thought you did “Mean” really good, and it was so not you. In fact, you deserve this Oscar. [:)]
Thanks Thomas for the .jpg
I’donno. It looks fine to me.
Grab the .jpg attachment, save to your server, edit the post for the .jpg file and then try. I bet it will work.
Opps, look for attachment on next post…
Grab the .jpg attachment, save to your server, edit the post for the .jpg file and then try. I bet it will work.
Looks like it’s a .bmp file.
Might that be the problem?