New Mexico Crash (NON CIRRUS)

Small plane crash last night in New Mexico. Not much information so far http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRF_NEW_MEXICO_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=MNMIT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULThttp://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRF_NEW_MEXICO_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=MNMIT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

It is always sad when a life is lost. But why is this posted on the COPA website? The plane was a Piper Meridian.

Mason

I guess he just wants to reenforce not just Cirrus planes crash. Also maybe in time we can learn from the other things that hapen. Does not have beto a cirrus to learn from it. Don

In reply to:


I guess he just wants to reenforce not just Cirrus planes crash. Also maybe in time we can learn from the other things that hapen. Does not have beto a cirrus to learn from it. Don


Don,

Of course we can always learn from others, crashes or not. When a post like the one that started this tread is started, many assume it is a Cirrus if it does not so state. Since we are a Cirrus Owners website. (That is what I thought until I read the AP wire)

The fact is that there are over 800 GA accidents in any given year. So, I thought the post needed clarification.

Mason

I see what you Mean now. I also was concerned before I read the news story. Don

Sorry about the confusion. Don is right in that I posted this so that we may all learn from accidents and that it not just Cirri’s that have accidents. A loss of life GA accident, in my opinion, is something that all pilots can learn from. I have updated the title to reduce the confusion.

In reply to:


I posted this so that we may all learn from accidents and that it not just Cirri’s that have accidents. A loss of life GA accident, in my opinion, is something that all pilots can learn from.


Jim,

No question - you’re quite right. I’m still wondering, though, if there was something about this particular accident that you feel is especially pertinent to us? In other words, why post about THIS fatal accident, vs. any other?

Asking only to understand – no criticism implied…

  • Mike.

I heard the report on national cable news Saturday, three fatalities, single engine airplane, northern New Mexico, and I knew this to be the general area where there have been two fatal Cirrus crashes. Searched the internet for information, not knowing or finding out at that point what type of aircraft was involved or what the circumstances were surrounding the crash. So many people on this forum seem to be able to route out the facts, and was hoping that someone would post more information. The reason for my post, therefore, was to see if someone had more information, the fact it was in area of possibly frequent accidents (an area that I flew through a couple of weeks ago), and at the time of post I didn’t know what type of single engine aircraft it was. First question my significant other asked was ‘was it a Cirrus?’ Maybe I’m getting a little jumpy.

In reply to:


I knew this to be the general area where there have been two fatal Cirrus crashes.


Although all three of these accidents were in the same “general area” (within 100 miles) the topography is very different. Angel Fire is a valley airport surrounded by high mountains. Las Vegas is at the edge of the plains up against the foothills of the mountains. Double Eagle is in the flats without much of anything around it (save for a sewage treatment plant and a few volcanic cinder cones.) Such is the wonderful and widely varied nature of New Mexico. (A great place to fly, by the way; just don’t bring an SR20 in summer unless you like to fly at dawn.)

100 miles, 30 minutes of flight time, and yes the topography changes rapidly. I very much enjoyed flying through there, landed at Sante Fe to refuel, very nice FBO and very friendly staff.

James:
I, for one, think it is good that you have posted a story about a non Cirrus accident. The nature of this forum is such that many folks think that only what they see here is all that is actually happening. As a result, many folks are getting the impression that only Cirrus planes crash. There are already miultiple rumores that the Cirrus is a dangerous airplane. Yet many Cessnas and Beechcraft planes crash as well in addition to Pipers and just about everything else. Your report helps put things in perspective.

In addition to all the previous discussion about why there have been the Cirrus crashes over the last 2 years, I would like to propose another possible theory. A well known risk for accidents in any aircraft is “time in type”. We are all at a higher than average risk when our time in type is less than 100 hours as we are gaining familiarity with a new aircraft. By definition, ALL Cirrus pilots have low time in type (except Mike Radomsky) by virtue of the fact that this is a new model airplane. This fact has got to skew the statistics to some degree. By the same token, over time, as more of us have more total Cirrus time, the accident numbers should only get better.

In reply to:


We are all at a higher than average risk when our time in type is less than 100 hours as we are gaining familiarity with a new aircraft. By definition, ALL Cirrus pilots have low time in type (except Mike Radomsky) by virtue of the fact that this is a new model airplane. This fact has got to skew the statistics to some degree. By the same token, over time, as more of us have more total Cirrus time, the accident numbers should only get better.


Brian,
There’s been quite a lot of discussion about the low-time-in-type issue (although I don’t know how much of it has been on the forums); I agree that it’s got to be among the factors that affect our record.
Among the other factors is that as a group, we really fly this airplane - we may be, on average, low time-in-type, but I’d bet that we accrue hours at a higher-than-average rate, flying bigger than average distances, through more-than-average variations in weather, over greater-than-average variations in terrain. I wonder whether we also have greater-than-average exposure to risk while we get past the critical knee in the risk-experience curve.

  • Mike.

I agree. I think that IS part of the issue. The only “cure” for this is continuing what we do. In addition of course, all the other safety precautions previously discussed should continue to be emphasized. We need to get a few more hours and a few more hundred planes delivered to get beyond this “hitch” in the statistics.
To emphasize the point, it seems even the instruction philosophy at Cirrus and UND as changed there approach to teaching the checkout in this plane as they gained more experience as well. We are all on a steep learning curve here.
COPA is clearly a giant step in disseminating the lessons learned.