I am interested to know how other participants in this forum are dealing with obtaining liability insurance, whether for their Cirrus or any other plane. It’s renewal time and I am trying to get at least $2M smooth–would prefer even $3M–which up until this year was not a problem. I have 1000 hr and am IFR rated, no accidents, violations, or incidents. Now I am encountering significant difficulties getting anything more than $1M smooth and most places will quote only $1M with sublimits.
For anyone who can afford to buy a new aircraft, $1M coverage is laughably inadequate. So I presume many of you have found other ways to deal with the problem, or have just accepted the risk that if you have an accident involving injury to other parties, your insurance will amount to little more than a fig leaf and your family’s assets will be exposed to plunder. I have set up an irrevocable life insurance trust payable to my wife, but of course for this to help I have to ensure that if I have an accident, it kills me (dang, maybe CAPS isn’t such a good idea after all).
I would be happy to learn from anyone else’s advice or productive experience in this area.
Kevin,
Maybe (just maybe) you could get an umbrella policy from another company (outside of aviation)that does not exclude aviation related accidents. I have done this myself and fortunately have not had to use it so I don’t know what help it would be. I am up for renewal soon and will ask my agent.
I plan to put the plane in one of my companies names. However, I understand this in no way limits personal liability as the lawyers will go after the operator(if he’s got a nickel or two)for negligence. A corporation does not shield you from this potential liability.
BTW, after seeing the pictures of the recent mid-air between to Cessna’s, I am glad I have another option on the chute. Let’em sue me for all my stuff but I value my life more than most of the stuff I have accumulated over the years. Besides, I am still young and energetic and feel I could build it all back in a couple of years. Might not even screw up as bad the second time around!
Mark
I am interested to know how other participants in this forum are dealing with obtaining liability insurance, whether for their Cirrus or any other plane. It’s renewal time and I am trying to get at least $2M smooth–would prefer even $3M–which up until this year was not a problem. I have 1000 hr and am IFR rated, no accidents, violations, or incidents. Now I am encountering significant difficulties getting anything more than $1M smooth and most places will quote only $1M with sublimits.
For anyone who can afford to buy a new aircraft, $1M coverage is laughably inadequate. So I presume many of you have found other ways to deal with the problem, or have just accepted the risk that if you have an accident involving injury to other parties, your insurance will amount to little more than a fig leaf and your family’s assets will be exposed to plunder. I have set up an irrevocable life insurance trust payable to my wife, but of course for this to help I have to ensure that if I have an accident, it kills me (dang, maybe CAPS isn’t such a good idea after all).
I would be happy to learn from anyone else’s advice or productive experience in this area.
FWIW, I attended two sessions at Oshkosh this year dealing with insurance. Both moderators commented that it was difficult, if not impossible, to get liability insurance these days in excess of $1M. Maybe the charade in Florida will turn enough people off about lawsuits to bring the limit up again, eh? :~)
I am interested to know how other participants in this forum are dealing with obtaining liability insurance, whether for their Cirrus or any other plane. It’s renewal time and I am trying to get at least $2M smooth–would prefer even $3M–which up until this year was not a problem. I have 1000 hr and am IFR rated, no accidents, violations, or incidents. Now I am encountering significant difficulties getting anything more than $1M smooth and most places will quote only $1M with sublimits.
For anyone who can afford to buy a new aircraft, $1M coverage is laughably inadequate. So I presume many of you have found other ways to deal with the problem, or have just accepted the risk that if you have an accident involving injury to other parties, your insurance will amount to little more than a fig leaf and your family’s assets will be exposed to plunder. I have set up an irrevocable life insurance trust payable to my wife, but of course for this to help I have to ensure that if I have an accident, it kills me (dang, maybe CAPS isn’t such a good idea after all).
I would be happy to learn from anyone else’s advice or productive experience in this area.
I am interested to know how other participants in this forum are dealing with obtaining liability insurance, whether for their Cirrus or any other plane
Kevin, I have concluded that if you have more than $1M personally exposed, yet you don’t have so much that a large judgement wouldn’t hurt badly, you have to shield liability in other ways - trusts, limited partnerships, etc. - and then be content with the $1M limit. It does complicate life, but there is no other realistic choice that I’m aware of. It ends up being the same thing you have to deal with to work around estate taxes, and if you make sure your estate planning vehicles carry solid liability protection as well you can “kill” two birds with one stone. Consult a good attorney - I’m not one. Good Luck…
I am interested to know how other participants in this forum are dealing with obtaining liability insurance, whether for their Cirrus or any other plane. It’s renewal time and I am trying to get at least $2M smooth–would prefer even $3M–which up until this year was not a problem. I have 1000 hr and am IFR rated, no accidents, violations, or incidents. Now I am encountering significant difficulties getting anything more than $1M smooth and most places will quote only $1M with sublimits.
For anyone who can afford to buy a new aircraft, $1M coverage is laughably inadequate. So I presume many of you have found other ways to deal with the problem, or have just accepted the risk that if you have an accident involving injury to other parties, your insurance will amount to little more than a fig leaf and your family’s assets will be exposed to plunder. I have set up an irrevocable life insurance trust payable to my wife, but of course for this to help I have to ensure that if I have an accident, it kills me (dang, maybe CAPS isn’t such a good idea after all).
I would be happy to learn from anyone else’s advice or productive experience in this area.
Kevin, you’re right, liabiltiy is a problem. What I’m doing is setting up a trust that ownes the plane. That way you are not personally responsible for the liability. It shields the rest of your estate from whatever happens to the plane. An incident drain whatever you have in that trust – the plane – but that’s it.
“For anyone who can afford to buy a new aircraft, $1M coverage is laughably inadequate”.
Are you suggesting that I should not be blowing my
entire net worth on my airplane(s) habit? #@%#$@!!! I need to have a talk with my wife…
Chris
Kevin,
Maybe (just maybe) you could get an umbrella policy from another company (outside of aviation)that does not exclude aviation related accidents. I have done this myself and fortunately have not had to use it so I don’t know what help it would be. I am up for renewal soon and will ask my agent.
Mark
What is the name/contact information of the company from which you obtained such insurance? Thanks–Kevin
Kevin, you’re right, liabiltiy is a problem. What I’m doing is setting up a trust that ownes the plane. That way you are not personally responsible for the liability. It shields the rest of your estate from whatever happens to the plane. An incident drain whatever you have in that trust – the plane – but that’s it.
Joe,
You might want to be careful about this. I checked with a couple lawyers and was told that this type of arrangement could be good if you are in a partnership and your partner causes an accident for example (i.e. you as co-owner of the plane could be shielded since it is actually the trust and not you personally who co-owned the plane).
However, if you are the one flying it, I was told that there really isn’t too much liability protection; someone who might want to sue as the result of an accident would be able to sue both the trust, as owner (which would shield you), AND ALSO you personally (as pilot/operator), which would still expose you.
So I was told that it may not be beneficial to go that route, unless you are doing it to protect yourself when someone ELSE is flying… really about the only thing you can do to protect yourself is get as much insurance as possible (i.e. Kevin’s original question) or possibly try to shield your other assets [not the plane] in a trust, as Mick suggested…
[Keep in mind I know next to nothing about the actual law here, I’m just telling you what I was told when I looked into this – if others have heard differently please speak up!]
Steve
This may protect you if you are not flying the plane but it doen’t protect you from liability as pilot.
Kevin, you’re right, liabiltiy is a problem. What I’m doing is setting up a trust that ownes the plane. That way you are not personally responsible for the liability. It shields the rest of your estate from whatever happens to the plane. An incident drain whatever you have in that trust – the plane – but that’s it.