I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
Not sure how “beginning” you are, but if the SR20 is to be your plane, then IMHO you should train for the IFR rating in it. It is fast and things happen more quickly than in the typical 172/Archer/Warrior IFR training aircraft, but you should accomodate to that in less than 10 hr I think. You will also learn IFR flying with state-of-the-art avionics, which is a good thing (but can you find a CFII who knows how to use a 430 for IFR?). The only downside to this is that, if for some reason you were to find yourself in the position of wanting to do an IFR flight in a traditionally-equipped plane (“POS” as Paul Traina says), you’d better pass on that opportunity–you will NOT be comfortable or safe flying IFR with just needles and their deflections to guide you.
As for “the safest thing you can find,” I’m certain that the SR20 qualifies, although there are some other contenders (SR22, Columbia 300, and maybe a particular type of modified 182 that I know of… 
You’ve made a great choice–have fun with the rating!
There’s certainly something to be said about starting from the ground up in one specific aircraft and how that would make a pilot truly very safe in that aircraft, and probably almost as safe in similar category & class aircraft. If your CFII guides your learning properly, as to master control of the SR20–as well as a solid working ability of flying IMC in more conventional-instrumentated aircraft–then I sure wouldn’t object to flying around in the clouds with you. You really answered your own question when you showed awareness that the cost of doing it this way is going to be higher than renting a C150. I would have chosen to learn in the Cirrus had this been an option 18 years ago. And your wife is smart.
Kelly Rudy, SR22 #178
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot?
I wonder about the premise of the question. To me, flying the SR20 is significantly easier than flying most standard training planes. And although I didn’t learn in one, I think learning would be easier too.
Yes, the SR20 is faster than a 172, requiring somewhat faster reactions. But it’s only slightly faster in the pattern (5-10kt difference on most legs of the pattern). And in any case, when you’re starting flying lessons, getting used to the whole idea of controlling and landing the plane is the main challenge, so that the differences in speeds are secondary. (What I mean is: if someone took a very-first flying lesson in a SR20, and had the usual very-first-flight feeling of, “Oh My God, I’ll never land this on my own,” I don’t think the person would feel: Gee, if only this were 5 kts slower in the pattern, it would be easy to land.)
And in ways other than speed, the SR20 seems easier than a Skyhawk. You can see out of it much better. It’s more comfortable,and I personally find the stick easier to use than a yoke. No “carb heat”! No ADF! Just about every trainer I used had crappy radios, and for all the squawk problems people may raise with SR20s, they’re way more reliable than the typical geriatric rental plane. OK, you have to switch tanks – and there is a Garmin you eventually have to use. But no one can tell me that having the Arnav makes learning to fly harder rather than easier. The “landing picture” is different in a Cirrus from its look in a Skyhawk, but I don’t think a Cirrus is in any basic way harder to land. Indeed, it is much easier to land in any significant crosswind. About the only “harders” I can think of are: the pitch trim is (as often mentioned) harder to fine-tune than is the SKyhawk’s manual trim wheel, and it’s more of a nuisance to sump the gas tanks and (especially) check the tire pressure in a Cirrus.
I have more or less “balanced” experience at this time. I had 300 hours of flying experience, mainly in Skyhawks (plus some 182 and seaplane, and the nauseatingly vivid time in an Aerobat) when I got a SR20. Have 275 hours of Cirrus experience since then. If circumstances had allowed me – or any of us – to start right out learning in a Cirrus, I think we’d have been grateful for that opportunity.
If you can start in a modern, well-equipped, reliable plane (Cirrus or otherwise), by all means do!
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
ok… quality …well it’s getting better.Yes …Get your IFR ticket in it if you can.The modern instrumentation gives you 100% situational awarness that can save your arse.Hard to fly? Have you ever flown a 150 with a bent wing?That’s hard.Airplanes all fly the same…turn left go left …pull go up… yada yada… some just require more respect then others… pucker factor.The safest thing you can find is you the pilot.Planes don’t kill pilots …pilots flying planes kill pilots.98% of the time it’s pilot induced eternal sleep.Goto www.ntsb.gov and read the database of all the accidents on file and it may sometime save you.Pilot’s should never stop learning. my 4.5 cents … later -j
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
I’ll comment on safety. ease of flying, and starting out in a Cirrus. I own a J3 Cub, and fly a Cirrus now and then. I always feel safer in the J3, because it lands at about half the speed of a Cirrus at touchdown. I think in an emergency situation I could put the J3 down safely in a much smaller space, and if I had to hit something, I’d hit with a lot less energy. A Cub doesn’t need a 'chute – it is a 'chute! I’d say the same thing for a C-150 or C-172, though maybe not as strongly.
Some of that feeling of safety undoubtedly comes from the fact that I’ve got more hours in my Cub than in any other type, but there’s no denying the physics.
I had nearly a thousand hours in several different aircraft types when I checked out in our SR20, and I was really astonished at how easy it is to fly. I think it’s easier to control, to make it do the right things, than anything else I’ve flown – as long as you can keep it within the profile for what you’re doing. Do the wrong thing on landing, and it is less forgiving than most of the light aircraft I’ve flown, even tail-draggers (half of my time is in them).
The SRs present two problems for beginning pilots: things can happen too fast, and the avionics are very complex. I come from the school of thought that you should master basic flying to the point that you can keep the airplane safely under control without having to think about it very much, then get into more complex systems like GPS and autopilots. Maybe I’m a fossil. Can you fly a Cirrus as a primary trainer without being distracted by the avionics? Probably, but it might take some discipline. For low-time pilots, keeping the MP in the very low 20s and the maximum airspeed in the C-172 range sounds like a good plan.
Bottom line: one of the most important characteristics of a good trainer aircraft is a very low stall speed, and the Cirrus stalls a good 20kts higher than most of the trainers out there. For safety’s sake, I’d start out in something slower.
John Renwick
In my opinion, one should master IFR in a much slower plane (eg, 100-150 hard IFR hours in a Warrior or 172) before tackling it in a high performance speedster like the SR-20. Things go fast in single pilot IFR and a high performance plane will slip away from you before you know it. The parachute is nice for passengers, but frankly is not much help when you are spiraling straight down through the clouds, full power and well beyond Vne. I tried to buy a Mooney shortly after getting my private. Wisely, the dealer refused to even show me the aircraft…told me to come back in a few hundred hours. I bought a Warrior instead, completed my IFR and have accumulated significant IFR time. While I am now ready for something more challenging, like an SR20, I appreciate how important it is to start with a slow plane for IFR work. That’s not to say a low time pilot cold never proceed directly to a fast plane…he just needs to be extremely careful about how quickly he advances into hard IFR. My main point is that the added dangers of a fast, slippery plane in hard IFR far outweigh any supposed safety margins from a parachute. If you want to go the safest route…go SLOW.
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
Not sure how “beginning” you are, but if the SR20 is to be your plane, then IMHO you should train for the IFR rating in it. It is fast and things happen more quickly than in the typical 172/Archer/Warrior IFR training aircraft, but you should accomodate to that in less than 10 hr I think. You will also learn IFR flying with state-of-the-art avionics, which is a good thing (but can you find a CFII who knows how to use a 430 for IFR?). The only downside to this is that, if for some reason you were to find yourself in the position of wanting to do an IFR flight in a traditionally-equipped plane (“POS” as Paul Traina says), you’d better pass on that opportunity–you will NOT be comfortable or safe flying IFR with just needles and their deflections to guide you.
As for “the safest thing you can find,” I’m certain that the SR20 qualifies, although there are some other contenders (SR22, Columbia 300, and maybe a particular type of modified 182 that I know of…
You’ve made a great choice–have fun with the rating!
I have to disagree. The SR20, although capable of going fast,can be flown slow. I believe that it is both easier and safer to learn IFR in an SR20.
In my opinion, one should master IFR in a much slower plane (eg, 100-150 hard IFR hours in a Warrior or 172) before tackling it in a high performance speedster like the SR-20. Things go fast in single pilot IFR and a high performance plane will slip away from you before you know it. The parachute is nice for passengers, but frankly is not much help when you are spiraling straight down through the clouds, full power and well beyond Vne. I tried to buy a Mooney shortly after getting my private. Wisely, the dealer refused to even show me the aircraft…told me to come back in a few hundred hours. I bought a Warrior instead, completed my IFR and have accumulated significant IFR time. While I am now ready for something more challenging, like an SR20, I appreciate how important it is to start with a slow plane for IFR work. That’s not to say a low time pilot cold never proceed directly to a fast plane…he just needs to be extremely careful about how quickly he advances into hard IFR. My main point is that the added dangers of a fast, slippery plane in hard IFR far outweigh any supposed safety margins from a parachute. If you want to go the safest route…go SLOW.
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
Not sure how “beginning” you are, but if the SR20 is to be your plane, then IMHO you should train for the IFR rating in it. It is fast and things happen more quickly than in the typical 172/Archer/Warrior IFR training aircraft, but you should accomodate to that in less than 10 hr I think. You will also learn IFR flying with state-of-the-art avionics, which is a good thing (but can you find a CFII who knows how to use a 430 for IFR?). The only downside to this is that, if for some reason you were to find yourself in the position of wanting to do an IFR flight in a traditionally-equipped plane (“POS” as Paul Traina says), you’d better pass on that opportunity–you will NOT be comfortable or safe flying IFR with just needles and their deflections to guide you.
As for “the safest thing you can find,” I’m certain that the SR20 qualifies, although there are some other contenders (SR22, Columbia 300, and maybe a particular type of modified 182 that I know of…
You’ve made a great choice–have fun with the rating!
In the Navy we did our basic instrument training in the T-28 which cruised at 180 kts and was quite a handful to manage with that big radial, cowl flaps, speed brake, very rudimentary nav gear, no autopilot, etc., etc.
And we did it with far fewer hours under out belt than the average beginning civilian IFR student. So I’d expect starting out IFR in a SR20 would be quite managable.
I agree with the comments about the difficulty in of trying to fly a less capable IFR platform after learning in the SR20. I had the same experience re-learning IFR in my /U TB20 (no DME, no HSI, no RMI) after being accustomed to having more sophisticated nav gear at my disposal in the military planes I flew prior to retirement.
Joe
In my opinion, one should master IFR in a much slower plane (eg, 100-150 hard IFR hours in a Warrior or 172) before tackling it in a high performance speedster like the SR-20
Sorry, I just could not let this one by.
We all know that Concorde supersonic airplane can fly around the pattern at sub-sonic speeds.
My point to the point is when you think you are going to fast reduce the power. IMHO the SR2X is a great airplane from the ground up. YOu could fly all day and night and never get above 120. I have thought people to fly turbo-props as their first airplane. They are proud owner of some fast machines and enjoy it and would not do it any different. When you have money it helps…
Look at United States Air Force, do you realize that with around 250 Total hours you are flying solo on a supersonic airplane that flaps up landing speed is higher then VNE on our lovely Cirrus. Some people will do better than others in a C-150 or a SR2X. Why learn computing on a pentium III when you can do it on a 8088 (remember those machines?) Have a great IFR training day on your New Cirrus.
Cheers,
Woor
In my opinion, one should master IFR in a much slower plane (eg, 100-150 hard IFR hours in a Warrior or 172) before tackling it in a high performance speedster like the SR-20. Things go fast in single pilot IFR and a high performance plane will slip away from you before you know it. The parachute is nice for passengers, but frankly is not much help when you are spiraling straight down through the clouds, full power and well beyond Vne. I tried to buy a Mooney shortly after getting my private. Wisely, the dealer refused to even show me the aircraft…told me to come back in a few hundred hours. I bought a Warrior instead, completed my IFR and have accumulated significant IFR time. While I am now ready for something more challenging, like an SR20, I appreciate how important it is to start with a slow plane for IFR work. That’s not to say a low time pilot cold never proceed directly to a fast plane…he just needs to be extremely careful about how quickly he advances into hard IFR. My main point is that the added dangers of a fast, slippery plane in hard IFR far outweigh any supposed safety margins from a parachute. If you want to go the safest route…go SLOW.
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
Not sure how “beginning” you are, but if the SR20 is to be your plane, then IMHO you should train for the IFR rating in it. It is fast and things happen more quickly than in the typical 172/Archer/Warrior IFR training aircraft, but you should accomodate to that in less than 10 hr I think. You will also learn IFR flying with state-of-the-art avionics, which is a good thing (but can you find a CFII who knows how to use a 430 for IFR?). The only downside to this is that, if for some reason you were to find yourself in the position of wanting to do an IFR flight in a traditionally-equipped plane (“POS” as Paul Traina says), you’d better pass on that opportunity–you will NOT be comfortable or safe flying IFR with just needles and their deflections to guide you.
As for “the safest thing you can find,” I’m certain that the SR20 qualifies, although there are some other contenders (SR22, Columbia 300, and maybe a particular type of modified 182 that I know of…
You’ve made a great choice–have fun with the rating!
In my opinion, one should master IFR in a much slower plane (eg, 100-150 hard IFR hours in a ,
haven’t heard the slow theory yet.Sounds boring and who wants to stay in solid IFR when not really needed by going slow…There is a deal called energy managment… pilots in fast slippery birdies pull throttle back a bit if going to fast.I tried it and it does work. my 5.5 cents ciao -j
I concur with the comments that the modern rental fleet is abysmal, and training on ADF’s (or even VOR’s) is an utter waste of time, except to pass the checkride. In my limited IFR experience (about 120 IMC hrs, and 90 approaches in a year), I have yet to do anything but ILS and GPS approaches. And you have to learn the most important part of instrument training, the GPS, on your own. However, I get excellent situational awareness with a Garmin 195 on the yoke for under $1000, used in conjunction with my antiquated King 89B in the panel. Though I don’t think the large screen, or even Garmin 430’s, are required to get the benefits of GPS IFR, any new IFR student should certainly seek out a GPS-equipped plane and a good GPS instructor.
I have read several things about the SR20 and believe the overall concept is a good idea. The quality problems are troubling.
If you were a beginning pilot, wanting to get your IFR rating on the plane you’ll call yor very own, would you consider the SR20? Would it be too difficult to fly for a new pilot? I’m not put off by the price, and my wife has made it crystal clear that she’ll only fly with me in the safest thing I can find.
Comments, please…
ok… quality …well it’s getting better.Yes …Get your IFR ticket in it if you can.The modern instrumentation gives you 100% situational awarness that can save your arse.Hard to fly? Have you ever flown a 150 with a bent wing?That’s hard.Airplanes all fly the same…turn left go left …pull go up… yada yada… some just require more respect then others… pucker factor.The safest thing you can find is you the pilot.Planes don’t kill pilots …pilots flying planes kill pilots.98% of the time it’s pilot induced eternal sleep.Goto www.ntsb.gov and read the database of all the accidents on file and it may sometime save you.Pilot’s should never stop learning. my 4.5 cents … later -j