I am considering buying the SR20 but I have heard that 100LL will be unavailable in about 5 years. What does this mean to all of you Cirrus owners/buyers? Will there be additives available? Will the price go through the roof for 100LL?? Will there need to be some sort of engine conversion or replacement??? Thanks.
I am considering buying the SR20 but I have heard that 100LL will be unavailable in about 5 years.
Whether 100LL will disappear in 5 years, or any other time frame, will depend entirely on the successful development of a replacement. There are several candidate lead-free Avgas replacement fuels that have been tested, but so far as I am aware, none has yet come up to scratch.
What does this mean to all of you Cirrus owners/buyers? Will there be additives available?
There will be an alternative available - there are many many more aircraft out there running on 100LL than just Cirruses. It’s inconceivable that they will all be turned into junk. In this respect, the SR20 with its recently manufactured (as opposed to modern) engine is probably in a better position than some - turbo-charged engines are most at risk of not having suitable fuel available.
Will the price go through the roof for 100LL?? Will there need to be some sort of engine conversion or replacement???
Sorry, my crystal ball just went IFR.
I’m donning my flame shield as I write this, but I agree with Clyde — it won’t be as soon s five years. The Klapmeiers are smart marketers, and they want pilots to think twice about buying a T182T or any plane with a turbocharged engine. Who knows, they might even be right. But change happens REALLY SLOW in this business. Maybe 10 to 20 years?
I am considering buying the SR20 but I have heard that 100LL will be unavailable in about 5 years. What does this mean to all of you Cirrus owners/buyers? Will there be additives available? Will the price go through the roof for 100LL?? Will there need to be some sort of engine conversion or replacement??? Thanks.
Given that there are a number of working jet-fuel diesels out there, I think that 100LL will be phased out quickly, but not as quickly as 5 years.
I am considering buying the SR20 but I have heard that 100LL will be unavailable in about 5 years. What does this mean to all of you Cirrus owners/buyers? Will there be additives available? Will the price go through the roof for 100LL?? Will there need to be some sort of engine conversion or replacement??? Thanks.
I think the biggest factors in the future of 100LL is: How long will the Tetraethyl lead be available on a commodity basis to add to the petroleum product? And how long will the refineries be willing to put up with the hassles of handling TEL to produce a product thatÂ’s what, something like .003% of their sales?
The world seems to be ridding itself of leaded fuel use rather quickly. I just heard that there is now only one company (outside of Russia and possibly China) thatÂ’s producing TEL. I think TEL will always be available as a specialty chemical; but at what cost?
I believe that producing a UL fuel that will work in the normally aspirated aircraft engines is not all that difficult. The problem is, producing ONE aviation UL fuel that will work in all the engines that 100LL currently does. The EAA and Peterson already sell STCÂ’s that allow the use of 87 octane auto fuel for about 60% of the aircraft in the GA fleet. The problem for a new UL aviation gasoline is, the petroleum industry doesnÂ’t want to develop, produce, and distribute two aviation gasolines. One for turbo charged and one for non-turbo changed engines. And although they donÂ’t make up a large percentage of the fleet, the turbo charged aircraft do burn a large percentage of the 100LL produced. IÂ’ve heard that they actually burn most of the 100LL produced.
There used to be a lot of aviation gasoline produced and distributed in this country (USA). But that was at a time when the airlines and the military used it. I think the best thing that we in the GA world can do is move towards a fuel thatÂ’s produced in greatest quantities. Either Jet A or an auto based fuel. WeÂ’re probably going see an ever-widening gap in pricing between 100LL and Jet A. Hopefully not as wide as what the folks in Europe see. But I guess thatÂ’s a taxing problem more then a TEL availability problem.
John
good summary of 100 LL issue in recent issue
of aviation week and technology.
Summary: two manufactureres of tel (UK and
Russia). Rapidly reducing auto requirements
for tel as eastern euro converts to
unleaded auto gas. they think 5 year horizon
for availabiltiy, possibly shortened by
industrieel accidnet at the two plants
worldwide that produce tel. personally, I
would worry about this in my purchase decisions,
but my own research is that the cirrus
engine would PROBABLY, not for sure, be
OK with whatever new additive is needed
for octane boosting/detonation control
jsjackson. BE33 N7861R
Also, a good report in the August issue of Sport Aviation, page 14.
John Mininger
Also, a good report in the August issue of Sport Aviation, page 14.
John Mininger
FWIW
A guy from a major oil company who handles logistics told me some trade secrets
- AVGAS is the only lead containing fuel left in Europe, so when it is of specifications (that the case in 50% !!!) it can only be sold to africa. So if one company produces it, it is for all major companies (true for kerosine / JetA also), and this is the reason why it is expensive.
Kerosine is also sometimes of spec. A few weeks ago a major airport in Europe had to be closed for fueling because of of spec delivered kerosine / JetA.
Jaap J. Dito SR20a #683
Wow, 13 years later I am where you were and am getting the same doom of avgas talk. Anyone know where this is going?
If I only had a Delorean, I could try to find out for ya.
Maybe you hit a record for waking up an old thread - 13 years and one month!
There are many players taking different paths, but I am pretty sure there will be a substitute available before they sunset 100LL and it won’t require mods to existing engines. Certainly GAMI’s G100UL meets this criteria right now.
Gordon: Is GAMI’s fuel still in the running for certification among the first set of candidates? I haven’t seen much news about their G100UL lately and I got the impression–rightly or wrongly–that Shell’s candidate was chemically very similar or identical to G100UL.
I would sure like to see GAMI be successful with it and reap some reward for all of their R&D time and expense.
GAMI is going the STC route. I don’t know how Shell’s formulation compares to GAMI’s. I do know that G100LL has been running in a Cirrus TN for hundreds of hours over something like 3 years.
The way the FAA has been issuing STCs, it should only take 7 more years for an approval [:'(]
Perfect. We can all go back to sleep and someone can wake up the thread again after only 7 years. Won’t be a new record for waking up an old thread though.
Don
I’ll check back in with you guys in 2028 then 
My buddy who is my designated “guy who’s way over the top with aviation friend” (we all have one) had an interesting perspective. He has come 180 degrees on this and now seems to be fairly assured that the agricultural pilots are going to save the rest of us. He’s also been at this for 30 years and knows change comes at a glacial pace.
If you’re the type of person who believes GA is causing the planet to turn into a cup of hot coffee, a bunch of weekend warriors and business owners buzzing the friendly skies makes for a pretty paltry reason to roll over on your green convictions.
However, if this becomes a “farmers’ issue,” the pressing need to develop an affordable solution or debate the matter well into the future is easier to buy into.
My 2 cents? It’s really a shame that the industry hasn’t worked toward Jet fuel or diesel engines for the last 20 years. If for no other reason at all, the scale of demand would dictate lower prices.
The scenario that I find more troubling (more likely) is that they tax 100LL into the $10-$12 range to discourage use.
knock knock… who’s there… this thread again…
What about the 100 Green gas?
I thought that had even higher lead content than 100LL?
It does. It’s the old leaded 100 Octane that was phased out for BLUE 100LL
It is leaded, but I was under the impression racing vehicles still use it. I guess my real question is if TEL or 100LL are under fire.