ConPil Maintenance Logs

Guest Discussion
1

I am posting my maintenance logbooks for the benefit of those detractors who canÂ’t believe what a lemon Cirrus produces and for any potential buyers who would like to see what owning a Cirrus can really be like. Each post will be a complete logbook page. I will also post excerpts from a list of fixes on the plane I posted earlier but which many seem to think is a fabrication. This should help them match up the original posting with the log books.

I will also include my flight log for the period so you can judge for yourself how little utility the plane provides.

When I am finished will provide an index by date, symptom, and failed part which may help in diagnosing your problems.

I request that those who wish to belittle me and these posts start a separate thread (I will respond) so as not to destroy the utility of this effort. I would also encourage others to do the same. If enough people do this it may be possible to spot problems of which Cirrus is unaware (or deliberately ignoring).
2

This page represents the time we were in Duluth to pick up the plane. Below is that portion of the fix log (previously posted) associated with this image:

01/09/02 - Bought plane
01/10/02 - Misc fit and finish items
- Failed to fix passenger door not flush
- access plug for left main gear
01/12/02 - Replaced battery relay (done Saturday and never logged)

The battery relay failed when we refueled and stopped for lunch across the lake from Duluth. After lunch the plane would not start. The key would turn but nothing happened. The instructor called Cirrus and was told to pound very hard on the top of the dash. He did and the plane started.

The following is from my logbook for the period from this page to the next:

01/09 SR20 254CD DLH DLH L=3 IA=1 SE=1.5 AI=.1 PC=1.5 FT=1.5 TF=1.5
01/11 SR20 254CD SUW DLH L=8 SE=1.0 PC=1.0 FT=1.0 TF=1.0
01/11 SR20 254CD DLH DLH LN=2 IA=2 N=1 SE=1.0 AI=.5 PC=1.0 FT=1.0 TF=1.0
01/13 SR20 254CD DLH-CLQ SUW-DLH L=25 SE=4.0 XC=4.0 PC=4.0 FT=4.0 TF=4.0
01/13 SR20 254CD DLH-3CU SUW-DLH L=15 LN=1 SE=2.5 XC=2.5 N=1 PC=2.5
01/25 SR20 254CD GAI-THV DMW-LNS-GAI L=4 SE=2.7 XC=2.7 PC=2.7 TF=2.7
02/06 SR20 254CD GAI-MRB FDK-GAI LN=1 SE=1.3 N=1.3 PC=1.3 TF=1.3
02/12 SR20 254CD GAI-MRB DMW-GAI LN=12 SE=2.6 N=2.6 PC=2.6 TF=2.6
02/14 SR20 254CD GAI-MRB-LNS DMW-GAI LN=4 SE=2.5 N=2.5 XC=2.5 PC=2.5
02/18 SR20 254CD GAI-TSO GAI L=2 SE=3.8 XC=3.8 PC=3.8 TF=3.8
1-76647-MaintLog.jpg

3

I received an SB which indicated the CAPS might not work unless the SB was performed so I called the service center and requested an appointment. I got one a couple of days later (this is the only thing that makes me long for the good old days, it now takes 3 to 4 weeks to get an appointment with a service center (too many planes too few service centers)). The CHT replacement is because the CHT never registered above 0.

02/28/02 - CAPS SB A20-95-01
	- Replaced CHT probe

I was scheduled for training as a commercial pilot in Manhattan, Ks. but I received another service bulletin (this time mandatory indicating that I had to have it performed within 10 hours of flight time) so I had to cancel the class and call may service center which by now was getting busy (it took 2 weeks for an appointment).

03/14/02 - CAPS SB A20-95-02

As the following flight logs indicate, the only flying during this period was to the service center and back.

02/28 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.7 XC=1.7 PC=1.7 TF=1.7
03/14 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 AI=.1 SE=1.9 XC=1.9 PC=1.9 TF=1.9
1-76664-MaintLog.jpg

4

I dont think anyone doubt that your plane have experienced more trouble than the average Sr20. It’s your poor and unsupported conclusions and assertions that people find unamusing and frankly, irritating.

5

Sorry for the repost, but I forgot the maintenance log image.

03/14/02 - CAPS SB A20-95-02

After replacing the CHT the probe still registered 0. The service center noticed that my probe was connected to #3 instead of #2 as called for in the maintenance manual. They checked with Cirrus who said it should have been connected to #2 from day 1.

04/01/02 - Moved CHT probe from #3 to #2 cylinder
- Throttle SA 02-04
- Removed STEC-55X
After the probe was moved I actually had a CHT reading (only took 3 months to realize the Cirrus had installed it wrong).

03/14 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 AI=.1 SE=1.9 XC=1.9 PC=1.9 TF=1.9
This was the flight to the service center for the parachute SB which delayed the commercial class.

03/17 SR20 254CD GAI-FRH-BGM MHK L=2 IA=3 AI=8.0 SE=9.9 XC=9.9 PC=9.9 TF=9.9

This was a fun flight, almost 10 hours 8 of it IMC. About 1/2 hour into the flight the autopilot failed. The only indication was a spiral dive. (The autopilot lost roll control and since it couldnÂ’t trim the plane any better than I could it very quickly went into a bank, which caused an altitude loss, which caused and increase in pitch, which tightened the bank and increased the altitude loss, and the whole time it was unable to level the wings, you get the picture.) Fortunately I noticed the problem and the bright side was that once I leveled the wings the autopilot corrected the altitude. I spent the next few hours trying to figure out whether it was easier to try to control pitch and roll which couldnÂ’t be trimmed properly or just roll. I opted to use the autopilot for pitch and manually control roll (by the time the flight ended I had a blister on my hand from fighting the roll).

By the time I got to FRH my 1500 foot ceiling had dropped to 400 feet so I had to go missed at FRH and fly to my alternate BGM. They had an ILS but the 2500 foot ceiling had dropped to 300. The first attempt failed (both my vertical and lateral were within 1 mark but when I broke out I didnÂ’t anything resembling the runway). Ever since FRH the fueling warning light was on (I was starting to wonder whether getting it fixed was such a good idea). The second pass I was still within one mark, both laterally and vertically but I the tower called and relayed a message from approach that I was 1 mile east of the runway. Even though 1 tick should have only been 400 feet at that distance, I ignored the Sandel and turned sharply west until the HSI was centered. I broke out over the runway and landed.

Since MHK was VFR with no ceiling and the IMC should end within 2 hours, I continued the trip. It had its moments. The controllers kept giving me new clearances requiring me to look up airways and intersections. Each time I did this I would spend too little time on my instrument scan which would put me in a spiral dive. The only bright side is that a spiral dive is now a routine flight attitude and no longer scares me.

One note, I obviously survived the autopilot failure. If I had not then I am certain that the resulting CFIT would have been attributed as a CFIT in which the plane could not possibly have played a part.

The following entries were from my commercial training. The xxxxxx are simulator times and the PA28R entries represent my first non Cirrus low wing flights. (I now think any low wing is easier to land than a high wing.)

03/18 xxxxx xxxxx MHK MHK GI=3.5
03/18 PA28R 3791T MHK MHK L=4 SE=2.2 PC=2.2 FT=2.2 TF=2.2
03/19 xxxxx xxxxx MHK MHK GI=2.5
03/19 PA28R 3791T MHK FOE L=1 IA=1 AI=.7 SE=.8 XC=.8 PC=.8 FT=.8 TF=.8
03/19 PA28R 3791T FOE MHK L=1 IA=1 AI=.7 SE=.8 XC=.8 PC=.8 FT=.8 TF=.8
03/20 PA28R 3791T MHK-3JC MHK L=12 SE=1.7 PC=1.7 FT=1.7 TF=1.7
03/20 PA28R 3791T MHK-3JC MHK L=4 SE=1.4 PC=1.4 FT=1.4 TF=1.4
03/20 PA28R 3791T MHK-GPH MHK LN=2 N=2.8 XC=2.8 SE=2.8 PC=2.8 FT=2.8 TF=2.8
03/21 PA28R 3791T MHK MHK L=2 SE=1.6 PC=1.6 FT=1.6 TF=1.6
03/21 PA28R 3791T SLN SLN L=3 SE=1.5 PC=1.5 TF=1.5
03/21 PA28R 3791T MHK SLN L=2 SE=0.7 XC=0.7 PC=0.7 FT=0.7 TF=0.7

This was the flight back from Ks. It was VMC all the way although the autopilot still didnÂ’t work and I still couldnÂ’t trim the plane (I still canÂ’t trim for hands off flight).

03/22 SR20 254CD MHK-BGM GAI L=2 SE=6.3 XC=6.3 PC=6.3 TF=6.3

This is the trip to the service center (it only took a little over a week to schedule).

04/01 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.8 XC=1.8 PC=1.8 TF=1.8
1-76685-MaintLog.jpg

6

In reply to:

I am posting my maintenance logbooks for the benefit of those detractors who canÂ’t believe what a lemon Cirrus produces and for any potential buyers who would like to see what owning a Cirrus can really be like. Each post will be a complete logbook page. I will also post excerpts from a list of fixes on the plane I posted earlier but which many seem to think is a fabrication. This should help them match up the original posting with the log books.

Art, your real agenda is very thinly disguised. Do you think people don’t know what your trying to do? Heck, even prospective buyers doing research would see through this ploy and ignore all of this wasted effort.

In reply to:

I will also include my flight log for the period so you can judge for yourself how little utility the plane provides.

Art, are you forgetting that most of us here have the same airplane??!! How do you think posting junk from your logbooks is going to change our past experiences? One of the biggest reasons I bought the plane and have enjoyed it so much is because of the incredible utility it has provided.

In reply to:

When I am finished will provide an index by date, symptom, and failed part which may help in diagnosing your problems.
I request that those who wish to belittle me and these posts start a separate thread (I will respond) so as not to destroy the utility of this effort. I would also encourage others to do the same. If enough people do this it may be possible to spot problems of which Cirrus is unaware (or deliberately ignoring).

Nice touch. However, I don’t think jumping up on the moral high ground is going to make you look any better at this point. What tiny shred of credibility you had when you started this effort has been completely shattered by your mean spirited attempt at mud slinging.

I don’t think there is a person here that hasn’t sympathized with you at some point in the past, but I also think we are all over it now. It is obvious you have kept the plane for a lot longer than anyone would have if they were really as unhappy as you have portrayed yourself to be. This makes me suspicious of your intentions, especially since you received a bona fide offer to buy it a long time ago and turned it down.

If you just want to air your grievances, don’t you think you would have a lot more impact at another owner’s forum where they don’t know you? Really, you have gone way past the point of having any real effect here.

7

04/08/02 - Installed repaired STEC-55X
- Replaced trim switch
- Installed left step skid pad
- Inspected vacuum manifold while failing

The autopilot failed on the trip back to GAI. A new one was ordered.

04/24/02 - GNS SB 203 & 204
04/26/02 - Replaced STEC-55X
- Replaced rocker arm covers and starter adapter o rings

The autopilot failed on the trip back to GAI.

Once again all of my flying was to the service center.

04/08 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.8 XC=1.8 PC=1.8 TF=1.8
04/23 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.7 XC=1.7 PC=1.7 TF=1.7
04/24 SR20 254CD GAI LNS L=1 SE=0.8 XC=0.8 PC=0.8 TF=0.8
04/26 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.7 XC=1.7 PC=1.7 TF=1.7

1-76782-maintlog.jpg
1-76782-maintlog.jpg695×504 84.4 KB

8

Below is the corresponding entries from my original listing of problems.

05/15/02 - Replaced roll trim motor
- Replaced autopilot roll relay
- Replaced boost pump
- Replaced STEC-55X
- Sandel software update

I did not fly since 04/26, my partner took the plane to Lancaster. He had has wife drive him back to Maryland.

1-76806-maintlog.jpg

9

My partnerÂ’s wife drove us to LNS. We decided that there has to be a better way of leaving the plane. The replaced autopilot failed the preflight (still no roll control). While we waited, yet another autopilot was installed. On the way back the controller was getting annoyed with us because we were drifting all over the sky. We eventually figured that the Sandel was slowing drifting out until 45 to 90 degrees off. It would then rapidly correct itself. When we landed I made an appointment with Frederick Aviation to have the Sandel looked at (there was no logbook entry but the receipt ($33) for setting up the Sandel software is available upon request). The 6/07 logbook entry from Dulles Aviation was just an oil change (and another failed attempt to fix the passenger door).

05/16/02 - Replaced STEC-55X
05/22/02 - Sandel update setup fixed

Again the only flying I did was for service.

05/16 SR20 254CD HEF GAI L=1 SE=0.8 PC=0.8 TF=0.8
05/22 SR20 254CD GAI-FDK GAI L=2 SE=1.1 PC=1.1 TF=1.1
06/07 SR20 254CD GAI-HEF GAI L=2 SE=1.3 PC=1.3 TF=1.3

1-76812-MaintLog.jpg
1-76812-MaintLog.jpg674×504 62.7 KB

10

Now that I am about to sell the plane and leave this group I was going to stop this exercise, but ClydeÂ’s last post makes it necessary to continue. For the benefit of Clyde and anyone else who canÂ’t read, canÂ’t count, or just canÂ’t be bothered with the facts, as of the previous maintenance log post I was on autopilot number 5. I still have 2 more to go.

Below is from my list of problems. Just 3 SBÂ’s no failures.

07/23/02 - Nose wheel SB 20-32-04
07/29/02 - Power lever SB 20-76-02
- CAPS SB 20-95-03

06/10 SR20 254CD GAI-DMW FDK-GAI LN=3 N=1.1 SE=1.1 PC=1.1 TF=1.1
06/11 SR20 254CD GAI-ESN DMW-GAI L=2 LN=1 SE=2.1 N=.5 XC=2.1 PC=2.1 TF=2.1

I actually got a long trip without any failures. I flew from Maryland to Florida for a Sunday brunch at Greystone and back in the same day.

07/07 SR20 254CD GAI-17FL GNV-GAI L=3 SE=11.9 AI=2 XC=11.9 PC=11.9 TF=11.9

07/29 SR20 254CD GAI-HEF GAI L=2 SE=1.3 PC=1.3 TF=1.3
1-76955-Maintlog.jpg

11

In an off-line discussion I made the following point, which I’ll repeat here.

I agree that Art may be too hands-off when it comes to maintaining his plane. But then, isn’t that precisely the type of pilot the Cirrus was aimed at? The “new” market of potential fliers who looked for safety (the chute) and a luxury automobile type experience? That was clearly the message the K brothers were sending early on and I guess Art’s sin is in believing them. (He thought he was buying an Apple, but he got a PC instead!)

The Cirrus is, IMHO, a great airplane – but not as great an airplane as Cirrus promised. It is a different ownership experience – but not all that different.

12

In any sizable population of customers there will be some who have problems and become dissatisfied. While the average experience with Cirrus is good, it’s valuable to hear the range of voices that make up the customer base. It’s often more valuable to reflect on negative experiences as a tool for learning and improving.

Since the early days of Clyde’s excellent site, the forums have provided a lot of diverse information and discussion. The one continuing shame is that owners who have cause to criticize Cirrus can expect a ritual stoning at the hands of the faithful. There are a lot of responsible posters too, but far too little tolerance for those who have problems to share.

There are few souls brave enough to endure the chorus of negativity that Art has attracted. Take a look back when the emotion diminishes to find that Art’s posts are mainly fact-based, while his detractors are quick to attack him on a personal level.

Nobody is without their faults, but IMHO, Art holds the high ground here.

13

On the way back from Duluth we found that although both fuel gauges read below 8 gallons the fuel warning light did not light. It did not seem like a serious problem so we deferred it until our oil change. According to my receipts (which I wonÂ’t bother posting unless someone really cares) this was on 02/21/02. Since there is no entry for this in the maintenance log it is probably in the engine log. The only log I currently have at home is the filled up airframe log so I will go to the plane tomorrow to pick up the other 3 logs (engine, propeller, and new airframe log) and merge them together in these posts.

The following is my original log of my problems with comments added:

02/21/02 - Replaced fuel gauge

The problem with the #2 alternator (oil leak) was discovered during the oil change but since the service center did not have any in stock I had to return a few days later to have the replacement installed.

02/25/02 - Replaced #2 alternator

As the following flight log indicates the only flying I did during this period was to the service center.

02/21 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 SE=1.6 XC=1.6 PC=1.6 TF=1.6
02/25 SR20 254CD GAI-LNS GAI L=2 IA=1 AI=.1 SE=1.8 XC=1.8 PC=1.8 TF=1.8
1-76654-MaintLog.jpg

14

Art,

In my SR20, I also had the issue with the low fuel indicator. It was verified that it did work but only when both tanks were below 4 gal as verified by the SC. Cirrus did admit that the indicator was being “set” at this level per their mfr spec which did not agree with the POH. They finally admitted the issue and sent a new part which cleared up the problem (reads between 8 - 9 gal). It was not a gauge problem but on the sender side. With my plane I did have a few problems which, other than one (exhaust pipe broke off of a cylinder) which were followed up at the SC over a period of time.

Overall I consider my issues all manageable and, overall, am satisfied with the response I have gotten from Cirrus and the SC.

Emil

15

In reply to:

I dont think anyone doubt that your plane have experienced more trouble than the average Sr20

I actually do doubt that. For example, Art claims to have had 7 faulty autopilots. It doesn’t take a great deal of intelligence to suspect that maybe it wasn’t the autopilots that were faulty. With any complex device, it happens that sometimes a replacement unit is faulty, and I’ve even seen cases of two faulty replacements, but 7 is way beyond the realms of credibility.

16

It wasn’t my intention to post the logs until a number of people publicly indicate I was fabricating my problems. I feel I have no choice other than to post them to prove the plane is as bad as I claim. As for posting my problems on other forums and gatherings. Anytime someone brings up the subject of Cirrus I can assure I tell them what I think.

17

In reply to:

For example, Art claims to have had 7 faulty autopilots. It doesn’t take a great deal of intelligence to suspect that maybe it wasn’t the autopilots that were faulty. With any complex device, it happens that sometimes a replacement unit is faulty, and I’ve even seen cases of two faulty replacements, but 7 is way beyond the realms of credibility.

I said I had 7 autopilots. They were good when they were installed. It was the Cirrus roll trim motor that fried the roll computer. It wasn’t until there were enough others with really bad roll trim motors (popped circuit breaker) and bad roll trim computers that someone was able to figure out my problem was Cirrus not STEC.

18

My point exactly, Art. Nobody with an ounce of common sense would allow multiple autopilots to be sacrificed in the manner you did.

19

.

20

In reply to:

Nobody with an ounce of common sense would allow multiple autopilots to be sacrificed in the manner you did.

I bought a new plane from Cirrus. I had all maintenance performed at Cirrus designated service centers. I am not a mechanic and I don’t pretend to be. Nor do I view my roll as the prime contractor trying to coordinate efforts of the assembler, the component manufactures, and the service centers. Your post would suggest what I have claimed all along, that Cirrus is not doing their job since they are the ones who cost STEC a lot of money. I am surprised STEC hasn’t demanded reimbursement from Cirrus.