N254CD had the trim servo replaced. While they were doing that the boost pump died so they also replaced that. Autopilot number 4 was installed. It failed during preflight at the avionics shop and was immediately replaced by autopilot number 5. The autopilot seems to work in HDG and NAV modes, but I am getting some unexpected results in GPSS combined with OBS mode. But at this point I am not sure whether that problem is the autopilot or the operator, further testing is required.
But at this point I am not sure whether that problem is the autopilot or the operator, further testing is required.
It turns out the problem was neither. The autopilot works GPSS mode and in NAV mode with the GPS set to VLOC. It does not work in NAV mode with the course set by the GPS or in HDG mode. The problem seems to be the Sandel (or gyro or fluxgate) which show a heading as much as 90 degrees off the actual course (no flags). My partner is finally starting to get fed up, but want to try a different repair facility (he still can’t believe the problem is the plane).
Art,
I hope that the repair facility you are refering to is not Airways. I just want to clarify that we do not do the avionics in the plane. I am quite hopeful and confident that all of the maintenance issues that were brought to us were taken careof for you in a very quick and timely manner. I would just like some clarification on "repair Facility:.
Thanks Art
Jim
If your standard is to expect planes that can fly on autopilot with a defective Sandel unit, you’ll be pretty limited.
I can certainly understand your irritation with Cirrus for the Sandel not working. Ditto that they don’t have a service center that is more convenient for you.
I hope that the repair facility you are referring to is not Airways.
I have always been very happy with both your responsiveness and your repair work. But we are now on our 5th autopilot and the Sandel has just failed. He thinks the problem is the avionics shop (even though the autopilot failures were caused by the trim servo and the Sandel failure appears to be in the remote gyro which nobody worked on). I have made 10 trips to Lancaster for repairs (20 hours hobbs in a plane with only 90 hours) and now that it is his turn to get service I think he wants something closer. I personally suspect the problem is poor system design and insufficient testing, but as I said my partner is still in denial that the fault could possibly be with the plane he waited 2 years for.
Art,
I think your next stop is Duluth…and the plane would stay there until it is right…PERIOD…
I can certainly understand your irritation with Cirrus for the Sandel not working. Ditto that they don’t have a service center that is more convenient for you.
And the 4 autopilots, the boost pump, the CHT, the fuel gauge, the alternator, the oil leaks, the trim switch, the BAT relay, 2 CAPS SBs, and a bunch of fit and finish items.
Humph! Try having the convenience of a Cirrus Service Center only a 40 min flight away, gaining confidence with the quality of the work done by the mechanics there, and really settling into a good owner/mechanic relationship, only to be told “out of the blue” one day by the owner that they aren’t doing any more Cirrus service work because Cirrus is holding off paying warranty work invoices as long as 6 months or more!
Now, I’ve had to spend a LOT of time finding a new Service Center within a reasonable flight distance to fix my trim/autopilot problem. They’re 90 min. flight time away and I haven’t a clue as to the quality of their work. Talk about starting over…
(The next closest - 75 min. flight time - Cirrus Service Center told me they MIGHT be able to get me in for warranty work in a month or so, if their work flow slowed down some, but no time soon because cash paying customers always get bumped ahead of warranty work…)
!@#%#%^#@^%%&^%&*^%%%^#@%#$@
Can you say I’M AGGRAVATED? YOU BET I AM!
UPDATE 22 MAY 2002:
Got a call from Cirrus today. Customer service rep. says the info about late payments in this post is wrong, that the service center in question has always been paid within a couple of months. So, I don’t know why I was lied to about the issue, but I’m going to wait and hear what Cirrus has to say after they get done looking into the matter further. Also, as far as finding another SC, the Cirrus rep. said I should always contact them first - they’d be happy to coordinate everything and thus save me the frustration and time waste…
William, I hope you can get things worked out - sounds like a really bad situation.
I think the FBO scene is really hit or miss - likely post 9/11 has made things worse. I always complain that my service center, Thunder Aviation (SUS, St. Louis) is expensive, but they are very prompt and work is good. In the net I’m glad to have them. I, and I’m sure the other St. Louis COPA members, would roll out the red carpet for COPA visitors in town for service or otherwise.
Andy
William–Sorry about your plight–worst yet–Keep posting–It may soon be time for a group of us to look into llegal action–for these failings–I am upset as a stockholder and as an owner–Only Ian has tried to help thus far. Well ask him in June for direct factory representation.
I can see your frustration with a close service center closing, and having to fly a greater distance, BUT an A&P mechanic "will not leave and obvious problem unrepaired if it is a safety issue. A&P mechanics take a lot of pride in there work and realize that the life of the pilot and there passengers are in there hands. If you ever get the chance read up on the “A&P mechanics creed”. We have had problems with slow payment also but we realize that Cirrus has there handsful right now. Its a new Company and they have a lot going on…We take care of our Cirrus customers wether we were paid by Cirrus or not, Because eventually these aircraft will come out of warranty and the building a good customer relations is important if you want them to come back as a “Paying” customer. It sounds to me as if your “Has Been” service center did not care about there customers. It angers me when I hear pilots always saying that “the mechanic didn’t do this” or “he should have done this” or “he didn’t do this right”. If you are an A&P mechanic you should know that troubleshooting a system can be sometimes difficult in finding problems. You know, becoming a certificated mechanic takes 2-3 years and a private pilots license can take less than 6 months. I think people should trust their mechanics decision. (I’m Venting)
Jim
Going to Duluth is not going to solve anything. They are mechanics just like any other A&P mechanic. All service centers had Factory training from Cirrus and we are always able to call Tech support at Cirrus for questions and answers. There tech support there is very good…
Jim
I think your next stop is Duluth…and the plane would stay there until it is right…PERIOD…
That would not help. The problem is not that the plane was not fixed properly, the problem is that it keeps failing. If I flew to Duluth (1100 miles each way) and they fixed it “right”. something else would likely fail on the way back. The fault is with the plane not the mechanic.
Post deleted by dobsonwe
I quick question if you do not mind answering Jim:
Are you being paid in a timely manner by Cirrus?
Brian
Then it sounds like the problem it with the owner of the facilitly not the mechanic or Cirrus. Its odd that an owner of a facility is neither an A&P or a pilot. Sounds to me as if you have a good mechanic and cares about the customer relations.
If cirrus is NOT paying thier bills in a timely fashion…the problem is with Cirrus. Past 60-90 days and most industries ‘cut you off’.
In reply to:
My partner is finally starting to get fed up, but want to try a different repair facility (he still can’t believe the problem is the plane).
In reply to:
If I flew to Duluth (1100 miles each way) and they fixed it “right”. something else would likely fail on the way back. The fault is with the plane not the mechanic.
Art,
I must be amazingly lucky to have an airplane that responds to fixing.
Anyone would be frustrated with multiple failures; but if the DESIGN were to blame, surely MOST of the airplanes would reflect that? I’ve had my share of things that needed to be fixed, but as I said, the fixes worked. The last 120 hours or so - of 540 hours total - have been basically squawk-free. Based on lots of conversations with lots of owners, my experiences are pretty typical (or seem so to me).
I know someone who goes into a parking lot and says, “I’m never going to find a spot”; then proceeds to prove the prediction, frustrated…
I drive into parking lots, confident that I’m going to get a “primo” spot right away - and invariably, I do. I’m not saying that thinking or outlook makes it so, but somehow, perhaps because I’m looking for the spot I expect to find, I find it…
Not suggesting you change, either… different strokes and all that… just really trying hard to understand why all of this seems to heap up so heavily on you.
I wish you better luck in your next airplane - hope you get one that stays fixed - and a partner… hope you get one more compatible with your way of seeing things.
- Mike.
My point is that the ‘plane’ would stay there not to fix but to figure out what is ‘wrong with the plane’.
I agree with you that the fixes for many of us are very temporary and reading more and more of these posts proves we are not alone.
Luckily, my squawks have been minor lately and as you may recall, paralled yours at a minmimum.
So for me, my current ‘enjoyment’ with my SR20 has been earned and it was to ‘hell and back’. However, if things remain consistent, the pleasure I get from flying this plane relatively ‘squawk free’ is enormous.
I hope you get there/here Art because nobody (no customer) should have to go through what we are/did from any manufacturer at any price.
Anyone would be frustrated with multiple failures; but if the DESIGN were to blame, surely MOST of the airplanes would reflect that?
A lot of my problems are shared by others. Vacuum system failure, Sandel failure, autopilot failure, trim failure, CHT failure, and probably CAPS failure. I seem to be unlucker than most because I am having them all, but I from reading these posts I am seeing a pattern of failure rates higher than seems to be experienced by other planes using the same components. If the components are not at fault I can only conclude that either the design or assembly aret.