Cirrus fiction

Guest Discussion
#21

Marty,

Thanks to Roger for providing a link to a DA calculator (couldn’t find a TAS calculator that considered moisture?). [;)]

Moisture doesn’t nearly have as much of an effect as pressure altitude or temperature on density altitude or TAS. That’s why your POH performance charts don’t incorporate water vapor content.

If you play with the calculator Roger pointed out, you might get the false impression that moisture can have a significant effect. Dew point varies less than does temperature. For example, you may wake up on a warm (upper 60s) and hazy morning with the dew point a juicy 65 degrees, but by the afternoon temperatures could easily hit the upper 90s. The dew point, however, may only find its way into the low 70s. When using such a calculator, make sure you take this into consideration.

#22

I don’t think there is anyone that doesn’t have sympathy for the problems you claim to have had, but my sympathy has run out.

I am not looking for sympathy. In fact, based upon the posts on this site, there are others with far worse problems. The only difference between me and those others with lemons is that I think the number of defects, especially recurring ones, is indicative of incomplete testing and poor quality control.

#23

That is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time — I have to agree with him Art. Stay and be happy or sell and try one of the " better " airplane’s out there. As I understand it, you have had an opportunity to " remove yourself " from Cirrus ownership and you declined.

It’s ok – just stop complaining if you decide to stay pleeeeaaases ? I’m sure there are several attributes which keep you a Cirrus customer, and if you’d mix those in once in awhile, your arguments would seem a bit more balanced and Objective rather than " always Objecting ".

All the best,

Scott Prinz
998CD

#24

I am not looking for sympathy.
Didn’t think so, that’s why I said mine had run out.
In fact, based upon the posts on this site, there are others with far worse problems.
I would find that hard to believe. However I am sure you will be using your highly doubtful and highly questionable methodologies for supporting preconceived negative comments and prove me ‘wrong’.
The only difference between me and those others with lemons is that I think the number of defects, especially recurring ones, is indicative of incomplete testing and poor quality control.
The first part of this sentence doesn’t have anything to do with the second part, so I don’t know what you are trying to say. But, I THINK what you meant to say was poor quality, not poor quality control. You may have forgotten a very long thread about this very topic you and I shared over a year ago. I thought I had been able to correct your earlier misunderstandings. Do we need to go over it again?

You did not respond to the most important part of my post. Why don’t you just SELL it?!

#25

Scott,

Anytime you want to check out the Cirrus or go up just let me know. Email me or call me. My numbers are at the members COPA TAN directory.

#26

COPA-TAN numbers are only available to members.

#27

Oops . I thought Scott was a member.

#28

Scott,

It seems funny to me to be thanking you for your input over the last year on a thread with the title above, but I am a low time IFR (220 hours PIC) and have run into some insurance issues with OUR PLANE and partnership issues and as such am renting a 2000 C182. This web site (esp members site) has been very helpful to me in many many ways. I enjoy reading as much as IFR magazine. (nice article a while back, BTW) I enjoy the process of learning and have certainly enjoyed the web site, even if I am little to the right of Roger. (also a fascinating person) ( I liked link about atmospherics,eg glory)

Thanks to all of you Mike, Marty, Scott, etc. You will see me back on the member site as I get closer to flying the 20 at CMA (they also need 300 hrs for ins)

Scott

#29

I let my membership lapse because I was investing a little too much time on the members’ site. I guess I didn’t have enough discipline. I have flown with Glen B and Walt in his 22. I haven’t put together the resources yet to own one but I sure have airplane envy. I would love to fly with you sometime

Scott SVoorman@adelphia.net

#30

In fact, based upon the posts on this site, there are others with far worse problems.

I would find that hard to believe.

I have not had in-flight instrument failures in IMC. I have not had a parachute fail to deploy. I have not had a forced landing due to engine failure or any other reason. I have not had critical parts fall off in flight. I have not died in my plane.

You did not respond to the most important part of my post. Why don’t you just SELL it?!

I have a partner (and friend), he doesnÂ’t want to sell. I did offer to sell my half to Marty, but he wasn’t interested. This is my first plane, but if some other posters are correct, any other new plane will be as bad as Cirrus. If this is the case, I will cut my loses and stick with my partner. At least the plane only cost me $120,000 and expenses are divided by 2.

#31

In reply to:

I did offer to sell my half to Marty, but he wasn’t interested.

Art: I think you may have a faulty memory on this one. I offered to buy your plane for the contract price less something like only $25/hour for usage. I wasn’t even going to deduct for the ‘lemon factor.’ I believe that you said that you wanted to, but your partner had not even flown the plane yet, or something like that. I took that this was your method of declining my offer.

Obviously, my offer was for an entire plane. I live about 800 miles form your partner and I doubt that we could have come to any agreement on where to base the plane. However, you were complaining about the entire plane and not just half, so it seemed reasonable to take the entire plane off your hands.

Just trying to make you happy.

BTW, how many hours are on the plane now?

Marty

#32

BTW, how many hours are on the plane now?

We now have 190. On 10/1/02 we had 155, so in the last 6 months we have only put on 35 hours. As much as my partner claims to like the plane he doesn’t seem to want to fly it any more than I do.

#33

Art,
You will recall 12-22 mos. ago (I’ll own it 2 years in June '03) my problems appeared far worse and recurring than yours…However, once I got past 250 hours (now 700), the plane has been a ‘dream’ (can you imagine me saying that!). My plane is ‘extremely’ reliable. Any problems now seem more in line with normal wear and tear. Plus, all the early troubles gave me more experience than a new pilot may have bargained for.

I have spoken to others who had tough 'break-in (I guess) issues and are now very pleased with their bird. I also think putting 35 hours on your plane in 6 mos. isn’t helping matters at all. Fly the $%^& out of it and I believe you see in time it will be very enjoyable as it should.
Good luck…

#34

In reply to:

I have a partner (and friend), he doesnÂ’t want to sell.

In reply to:

As much as my partner claims to like the plane he doesn’t seem to want to fly it any more than I do.

The last sentence reads (to me) as though your friend and partner either doesn’t know his own feelings, or he’s dishonest. I don’t know if that’s what you meant, but if I were your “partner (and friend)”, I’d be offended by such an implication in a public forum.

But I’m not offended.

  • Mike.
#35

Don, my experience mirrors yours, both pre and post.

Andy

#36

The last sentence reads (to me) as though your friend and partner either doesn’t know his own feelings, or he’s dishonest.

He is no worse than other Cirrus owners who seem to be myopic about problems with their plane. On 04/12/03 a prominent COPA member reported multiple failures with his PFD. Then on 04/24/03 he reported his “first” problem with the plane (a cracked flap hinge).

It reminds me of an incident years ago. We were sent to a company to look at their operation of a 24/7 online system similar to ours, but which had never had a failure. While we were there the alarms sounded and the system crashed. I said, “Wow, does this mean we witnessed your first failure”? The response was that this didn’t count because they were able to get it back up.

#37

In reply to:

He is no worse than other Cirrus owners who seem to be myopic about problems with their plane.

OK. As long as you wouldn’t damn him with faint praise, or anything like that.

Perhaps someone out there appreciates your help in finding the bad among all the positive stuff that seems to blind so many of us. [;)]

  • M.
#38

Perhaps someone out there appreciates your help in finding the bad among all the positive stuff that seems to blind so many of us.

It’s a thankless job, but someone has to do it.