Cirrus Problems

Guest Discussion
1

I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

2

I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.
What would you be looking at that was a better airplane? Ask ANY customer who has bought a Cirrus and ask them about their customer support: it is unmatched. ANY new company has road blocks that are unanticipated. The fact bthat Cirrus basically gives you a free pass on cost of living increases after their promised delivery date proves that they are not out to “take advantage” of us. I see nothing that Cirrus has done that should make you “distrust” the company. Talk to new owners of well established airplane companies such as Cessna and Mooney and you will find their customer support and response to the buyer much worse. Good luck on finding a different airplane but I still do not think you will beat what you get in a Cirrus even if you wait 2 years for it.

Brian

3

Having owned a SR20 for six months now and having had some of the problems you mentioned I can say with certainty that Cirrus has been superb at working out any problems I have had in a timely and efficient manner. Problems such as talked about on this forum I believe are minor when you think of the compleities behind what it has taken for the company to get to the point they are at now many have tried and failed. As far as whether they stay in business nobody can say that for sure about anybody. Icertainly hope so. Lastly and most importantly it is a great product and a blast to fly.I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

4

On a couple of specific points, FWIW

I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.<

Virtually everyone who is getting an “early” SR22 is someone who had been in the SR20 queue and decided to upgrade. It is true that there are some SR20 position holders who have been pushed back by this policy, and it’s true as well that the reason for it is clearly (and admittedly) Cirrus’s need to ramp production of the higher-margin model in the short term. But virtually everyone who is getting an “early” SR22 is an early Cirrus customer, who put down a deposit many months or years ago but decided to go for the 22 when it became available.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so.<

I think if you read the posts more closely, or if you asked people directly, this is what you would hear: Cirrus has been chronically too optimistic in its production forecasts,to the degree that further forecasts should be taken on a “believe it when we see it” basis. (Cirrus’s counterargument would be: they could have met the schedules if they’d been able to raise capital more quickly. True but irrelevant from the customer’s point of view.)

But in other aspects of “integrity” I would think you’d find nearly all customers very much impressed by the company and its service. There is a kind of integrity in their admitting that they have to move 22s in the short term to get the capital to expand production.

In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.<

No doubt this is so. On the other hand, the ever-growing backlog list suggests that some others are still taking the plunge.

whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances…Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.>

Again I would suggest that you read these posts more carefully or ask people more directly about their experiences. One or two people do seem to have had unusual transponder problems. Speaking for myself, in 100+ hours the transponder has never been a problem in busy airspace or near an airport. The reported difficulties have all been in remote areas, where other explanations would suggest themselves.

ARNAV is a more complicated situation. Having flown without it, for about a week, while I was getting part of it upgraded, I was amazed how much I missed it.The ARNAV company needs to get better faster, but I think it misreads the situation to characterize this as some gross mismanagement on Cirrus’s fault.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

Everyone should find the product that suits him or her best, and for you it might be something other than Cirrus. (Good luck with Lancair deliveries! Or getting a Mooney or Bonanza for comparable price!) I’m simply saying that if the reason is your inference of “lack of integrity” on Cirrus’s part, I think that’s a misreading of the discussions here. Jim Fallows

5

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

I think the posts below all are right on. I would only add keep in mind that Cirrus is still a new and developing company. I believe the problems they’ve had with delivery, etc… come from that. Frankly, my basic attitude is no airplane/company is perfect. For the low-price one pays for a Cirrus and the quality one gets, the trade-off has been delays, and some product issues. Very few airplanes get off free of technical problems, even the venerable 172 series is always beset by AD’s and some quite signifigant.

The bottom line is you should absolutely buy what you are comfortable buying. Personally, I think the SR20 owners have seen their last institutional delay, but I could be dead wrong. I base that given that the delays have always stemmed from the inexperiece of the company at making their product. This is a clean-sheet design. Period. And it stinks it’s been delayed, but I think that is past them now. And a backlog of hundreds of orders suggests a healthy demand for the airplane, which if I were you, would be what I was most worried about. In a way, now is the perfect time to put down a deposit, because it sounds like they have a real solid game plan. You may not have to suffer the set backs early adopters did.

Good luck with whatever you choose. For the price, I don’t think you’ll get a better new airplane.

6

I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

Jim,

The problem with looking at other planes is, what are you going to look at? 40+ year old designs, with less performance, less technology, less quality, all offered at only twice the price!

If you are not convinced after flying the plane, look at the reality of the business situation. Cirrus has a back log of 700-800 planes. In their first year they became the #3 producer of piston aircraft, for good reason. Their biggest asset is their certified design. In the unlikey (but possible) scenario that Cirrus falters, the realistic outcome is that the company, the certified design, and the huge customer order base, will be picked up by another company. Based on this, sending in a deposit for the plane is probably not as risky as you think. If Cirrus failed, how many other manufactures would be lining up, mouths watering, for a new certified design and a huge customer order base? Plus, looking at the current resale market for used Cirrus planes, the contract resale market, and the probable (and much needed for Cirrus) price increases between now and the time you would get your plane, you actually stand a good chance of your deposit increasing in value over time. (Can’t always say that about other investments.)

From my experience, I can tell you my Cirrus rep has quickly answered every question I have posed. Within 2 weeks of my first contact with Cirrus, an SR22 was here in Syracuse for a demo flight. Although my rep always takes the company line, the response time is almost instantaneous and always honest. From what I’ve heard from the fortunate people that aleady have their planes, any problems have been swiftly handled by the company.

Cirrus is a new company. From the outside looking in, it seems they underpriced their product (hence the huge demand.) Cash flow is apparantly a problem, but integrity and customer service is not. They may not be the best managed company in the world right now, its called growing pains. They will get better.

At some point there will likely be continued price increases. The SR20 has already been increased twice in the last year. Get you deposit in now before the next one. What are your other options? Spend $400k on a plane designed with 1950’s technology?

Jeff SR22 #228

7

If you truly doubt the company’s integrity, then right or wrong you may wish to go with your gut and look elsewhere. I understand your concerns; however, I tend to agree with the other posters supporting the company.

The perspective that I will add will be of that of one of, if not the only, second owners of a SR20. From my first contact they were very helpful and have been extremely responsive regarding service. Because of my experience with them and more importantly my SR20, I recently considered putting down a deposit for a SR22, but I have decided that I am just being excessive and that my a/c fits my needs. Granted I am in a much different position than those who are still awaiting their a/c; however, I for one am one happy SR20 owner.

Good luck with whatever you decide to buy.

8

Jim,

I have little to add to what others have said; but in this case, I feel it’s worthwhile to say it anyway, because you are probably going to consider not only WHAT you hear, but how often you hear it (sort of like a vote).

Like Bill, I have a second SR20 on order. I feel that this company has earned my confidence, primarily by their honesty and the quality of their work. No, they’re not perfect in any respect, with their history of missed targets in several areas being among the more obvious of the faults. But in most of the areas that matter to me, they’re as good as - or in many cases, better than - most in my experience.

Since I’m among those who’ve experienced transponder issues, let me make this comment: My problems do not seem typical, and the fact that I still have a problem is causing as much concern to Cirrus Customer Support as it is to me. I have no complaint about their response, particularly in light of the fact that they have had to devote some high-level resources to the tragic Koehler accident in recent days.

I have never bought a new airplane before this, so I don’t know how much better or worse any other company would be; but I have bought other new hi-tech non-cheap items, and I have the IMPRESSION that Cirrus is doing a fine job.

FWIW.

Mike.

9

Jim,

Guess it’s time to get in line to sound off on what it’s like to actually own an SR20. I—and every other owner I’ve talked to—freakin’ love our planes and the way we’ve been treated by the company. I waited nearly 5 years to get my plane—I gave them my money when there was one prototype. There is no other airplane for double the money. Buy a used one and avoid the deposit and wait.

Chris

10

I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

Yea, I had reservations three years ago about putting down $15,000 on an uncertified $159,000 airplane. Looking at the cup half full turned out to be a good decision. I go to Duluth today to pick up my airplane.

I take exception with your comments about the company’s integrity. I have found them to be honest and forthright in all my communications with them. I believe that you are misunderstanding the putting off of the SR20 position holders. They are making room for accommodating the early SR20 holders that upgraded to a 22.

I genuinely think that, with the benefit of much exposure to the company, that they may not be perfect, but they’re very good. Everyone I know who has picked up their plane has had a similar perspective.

11

Jim -

I share your concerns regarding Cirrus’ problems getting production lined out. And their inability to make reasonable forecasts. I’ve posted my comments in this area before.

But, from my contact with the company on other issues and press and customer reports, I think they are doing a good job in almost every other aspect. My sales rep has been honest and forthright. The design is great. Quality control does not seem to have been compromised.

When I put down my deposit 3 years ago, I felt there was a 50% chance that I’d write off the deposit. Now, I’d put the chance at virtually zero. They have additional institutional funding which should buy them some time. And, if all else fails, someone else will buy the design and the customer base.

So, if I had to do it over again, I’d make the same decision.

But, then, I pick up my plane is June. That makes it easier to be philosophical.

Bob

I’ve been reading posts on this forum for at least six months as I considered buying a SR20.

In January, I was about to pay the $20k deposit, and was given all sorts of rosey assurances by the Cirrus sales rep. But I then started hearing rumors about financial difficulties at Cirrus, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, Cirrus announced its layoffs and need for funding.

I had to then think hard about whether to go forward with signing the contract and paying the deposit, which would have made me an unsecured creditor to Cirrus. I was about to finally take the plung, but then learned that Cirrus was going back on its promised delivery dates for the SR20s and was stopping production in favor of the SR22.

Bottom line: It seems to me that Cirrus either is unable to keep its promises, or lacks the integrety to do so. In talking to others who were seriously considering purchasing a Cirrus, they too have backed off and are looking at alternatives.

Please don’t flame me – I am not anti-Cirrus. However, whether due to inability or due to lack of integrity on the part of Cirrus, the simple fact is that I would be a fool to give $20K to Cirrus under these circumstances. Even though I believe Cirrus will survive financially, I am unable to trust the company to keep faith with its customers. After all, it hasn’t kept faith with current SR20 position holders and it keeps pushing back production and projected delivery dates.

I think Cirrus has hurt itself more than it realizes. Also, the persistent reports of transponder and ARNAV problems, with no clear indication by Cirrus of any plans to address those problems, also gives me great hesitation about Cirrus as a company.

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

12

At this point, I looking elsewhere but want to be convinced that I can depend on Cirrus.

Speaking as a longtime depositor, first SR20 and now SR22, I can say that to my knowledge I have never once been treated with anything but honesty, consideration, politeness, and respect by anyone at CD. I also know several owners and they speak very highly of their post-purchase interactions with Cirrus.

I also have spent my career in a small company, starting as one of the first nine employees, seeing it through an acquisition by a larger firm, and participating in its subsequent growth as a largely independent subsidiary. Demands routinely exceed capacities. It is usually very difficult or even impossible to hire exactly the kind of experience and expertise you need, consequently much of the experience needed to “invent the company” is homegrown in real time. There are always compromises in using limited available funding to accomplish required objectives; there is more improvisation involved on a regular basis than most outsiders can imagine. It is a continually difficult process to “keep one’s eye on the ball” and be able to decide “what is the very most important thing we should be doing with our resources right now so that we’ll be a successful company in 6/12/24 months?”

Sometimes human factors present obstacles too: I’ve seen the costs of poor relationships between key individuals, a disgruntled employee or two, or the reluctance of founders with their entreprenurial spirit to give up more than a certain amount of control of the company even when it might serve the long term interests of both the firm and its customers.

I am confident Cirrus will survive and believe it will eventually be a major player in GA manufacturing. Even if it doesn’t, its unique products and long list of orders have already demonstrated that there is considerable value in the company, its designs, and people. It would surely be acquired; I think the “acquirers” would be really stupid to generate a huge amount of ill will from the get-go by refusing to honor contracts or deposits. So I myself do not believe that I have made a big gamble with my $45K (as of the present) investment.

However, we all have our own degree of risk tolerance. It may be that yours dictates that you should fly another type of airplane for a while until Cirrus is more established and secure. Nothing wrong with that–Cirrus needs customers for their 2000th and 3000th airplanes just as much as they need the very next signed contract this week. Believe me, as one who has flown an SR20 for 12-13 hr courtesy of Walt, they’ll get to you sooner or later!

13

If you really want a great airplane and you have doubts about Cirrus – then I highly suggest that you take a factory tour in Duluth. If you haven’t had a demo flight, I’m sure they would love to arrange that too. If you don’t come away convinced that the entire Cirrus team is very honest and sincere then you probably should select some other airplane (but I’d doubt that you will find an entire company as honest and sincere as CD).

14

The responses to my original post about producing the SR22 in lieu of the SR20 present a valid point. I had not considered that most SR22 position holders were early SR20 position holders, and that taking a few months to produce only SR22s was a legitimate attempt to serve the needs of those early buyers.

The responses about the $20K deposit not being at risk, however, do not strike me as valid. If Cirrus goes under, no doubt another company will pick up the designs. However, that second company will have no obligation to honor any existing contracts or refund any deposits. Any such rights by position holders will be wiped out in bankruptcy, or else the second company will have made a simple purchase of Cirrus’ assets without incuring any obligations.

I am sold on the plane – no question. I also will accept that Cirrus has integrity, based on the responses of those who have dealt with the company. I’m just not convinced about the business viability of the company.

Believe me, I want a SR20. But I won’t make an unsound decision based on emotion without looking at the underlying strength of the company. In effect, anyone buying a Cirrus plane is also buying the company, because the viability of the company effects the value of the plane.

I’ll likely pluck down my money and take my chances. However, if Cirrus is unable to live up to its commitments, and I lose my money, I at least want to know that I did so with full consideration of the relative risks and rewards.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

– Jim

15

One final concern. I keep being told by Cirrus that it is about to get a 100 lb increase in the SR20 useful load (i.e., gross weight). I’ve been told this for over six months, and as far as I know, it hasn’t happened.

At first I was told end of 2000. Then early 2001. Now mid-2001. Once again, it creates a credibility problem.

Again, I’m not trying to bash Cirrus. I just want straight answers that I can rely upon.

What’s that straight scoop?

– Jim

16

Jim - One other thought for you (and I know that I am risking the wrath of the others):

Owning a plane is far from cheap. If you look at your anticipated expenses over a 10 year period, is $20K really a lot of money?

I fully expect to receive my SR-22 around Q1-2002. But, if Cirrus tanks and I am out my deposit - oh well. Yes I worked very hard for the money, but sometimes one needs to weigh the pro’s and con’s and then if the pro’s are good enough (and in this case they are great), the con’s lose.

  • Steven

The responses to my original post about producing the SR22 in lieu of the SR20 present a valid point. I had not considered that most SR22 position holders were early SR20 position holders, and that taking a few months to produce only SR22s was a legitimate attempt to serve the needs of those early buyers.

The responses about the $20K deposit not being at risk, however, do not strike me as valid. If Cirrus goes under, no doubt another company will pick up the designs. However, that second company will have no obligation to honor any existing contracts or refund any deposits. Any such rights by position holders will be wiped out in bankruptcy, or else the second company will have made a simple purchase of Cirrus’ assets without incuring any obligations.

I am sold on the plane – no question. I also will accept that Cirrus has integrity, based on the responses of those who have dealt with the company. I’m just not convinced about the business viability of the company.

Believe me, I want a SR20. But I won’t make an unsound decision based on emotion without looking at the underlying strength of the company. In effect, anyone buying a Cirrus plane is also buying the company, because the viability of the company effects the value of the plane.

I’ll likely pluck down my money and take my chances. However, if Cirrus is unable to live up to its commitments, and I lose my money, I at least want to know that I did so with full consideration of the relative risks and rewards.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

– Jim

17

The responses to my original post about producing the SR22 in lieu of the SR20 present a valid point. I had not considered that most SR22 position holders were early SR20 position holders, and that taking a few months to produce only SR22s was a legitimate attempt to serve the needs of those early buyers.

The responses about the $20K deposit not being at risk, however, do not strike me as valid. If Cirrus goes under, no doubt another company will pick up the designs. However, that second company will have no obligation to honor any existing contracts or refund any deposits. Any such rights by position holders will be wiped out in bankruptcy, or else the second company will have made a simple purchase of Cirrus’ assets without incuring any obligations.

I am sold on the plane – no question. I also will accept that Cirrus has integrity, based on the responses of those who have dealt with the company. I’m just not convinced about the business viability of the company.

Believe me, I want a SR20. But I won’t make an unsound decision based on emotion without looking at the underlying strength of the company. In effect, anyone buying a Cirrus plane is also buying the company, because the viability of the company effects the value of the plane.

I’ll likely pluck down my money and take my chances. However, if Cirrus is unable to live up to its commitments, and I lose my money, I at least want to know that I did so with full consideration of the relative risks and rewards.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

– Jim

maybe you should try to find out about what their plan is with this latest institutional placement that was just voted through…

I have seen three years of books and this investment will bring in HUGE amounts of cash and will significantly reduce dept…

They have set later this year for breakeven and say that the “Plan” of investment should carry them through that…

I am beginning to get a whiff of someone
who may not be looking totally impartially at the developing scenerio…

Just my opinion.

18

…

I am beginning to get a whiff of someone

who may not be looking totally impartially at the developing scenerio…

Just my opinion.

… watch out with own opinions. I’ve learned these days that they are not welcome to some individuals of this community if it’s not mainstream.

I’m sure the wast majority of the forum support the freedom of speech and thoughts. Keep it polite and shields up.

Wilfried

19

At first I was told end of 2000. Then early 2001. Now mid-2001. Once again, it creates a credibility problem.

Again, I’m not trying to bash Cirrus. I just want straight answers that I can rely upon.

A gentle suggestion that in light of the previous extensive replies, a less prosecutorial tone might be called for.

20

Jim,

FWIW, I’m a retired CPA with one of the global accounting firms and have been fortunate to have seen up close literally 100’s of companies from the inside - good ones and the other kind, too. I took a hard look at the Cirrus SR20, and came away quite favorably impressed with the company, its business philospohies (which include integrity), and a conclusion that I would be delighted to be the proud owner of an SR20. That’s why I daily check into this forum. This investigative effort included a day in Duluth in late November 2000 during which I toured the plant, met both Klapmeiers and several other top management people, and examined their production processes and financial structure.

Nevertheless, I opted to go in another direction, with an aircraft with comparable performance at the top end, and substantially better performance at the slow end of the performance envelope. A major element of my decision to buy a different product was the timing of the purchase transaction (1 year vs 2-3 years), comparable costs for essentially comparable performance (and in certain respects better performance), and comparable ethics and integrity on the part of the purveyor of the aircraft I decided to buy, which is a highly modified version of an old standby design.

Bottom line, there are alternatives available, but a decision to go that route should not be made with the idea that integrity is lacking at Cirrus. If anything, Cirrus’ overall business performance over its history makes it clear that integrity is NOT one of their problems. The fear that if another aircraft company takes over Cirrus and refuses to assume the obligations inherent in your deposit is, in my view, without merit, since any such acquirer would be shooting themselves in the foot by not honoring the 600 - 700 sales already on the books.

So, go in the direction you are most comfortable with - it’s very much a personal decision. But know that the decision should be founded upon sound fundamentals that you know are right for you.

Pete

One final concern. I keep being told by Cirrus that it is about to get a 100 lb increase in the SR20 useful load (i.e., gross weight). I’ve been told this for over six months, and as far as I know, it hasn’t happened.

At first I was told end of 2000. Then early 2001. Now mid-2001. Once again, it creates a credibility problem.

Again, I’m not trying to bash Cirrus. I just want straight answers that I can rely upon.

What’s that straight scoop?

– Jim