ATC: \"say heading\"

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In reply to:


Of course, this is all a holdover from the days when heading was all we had. Track is a much more useful item, but old laws are hard to change.


Which brings up a question. When flying GPS direct, ATC will sometimes ask my heading. Presumably what they really care about is my desired track. Wouldn’t it much more useful to them to reply: “current heading is 2-7-0, desired track 2-6-0”? That way they know precisely where I going to GPS-direct rather than my wind correction angle.

In reply to:


Presumably what they really care about is my desired track.


I don’t think that’s a safe assumption. They’ve asked for, and want, your heading. Period.

Imagine VERY strong easterly winds (could be 100k or more at altitude). They’ve given a northbound aircraft a heading of 020, which is resulting in a generally northerly track. When they ask you to fly 020, they’ve already figured in what the winds are doing - in this case they may just want your path to parallel the other plane’s path. When they ask for your heading, they similarly want that and can mentally adjust for the known winds.

I don’t think giving them your “desired track” tells them anything meaningful. In my experience, when Jax Center asks me what my on course heading will be to Copperhill, TN, I think they just need to know the general direction - a few degrees one way or another does not seem to matter to them, esp. off airways.

Maybe if Don Brown is lurking he could give his .02.

Today I file GPS direct to Fort Worth. Mag course (track) is 181 degrees. My HEADING is 177 degrees today with wind. Local controller always clears me direct and says “SAY ON-COURSE HEADING”.
I usually say 181, and file for an ODD flight level. Wrong?

Ed is exactly right. ATC works off the heading for all planes they control, not the ground track.

<< Maybe if Don Brown is lurking he could give his .02. >>

I’ll give you 2,500 + words on it Fast Eddie. On March 3rd. Be sure to go to www.avweb.com and click on my ugly mug next month.

In that this is indeed the subject of my next column I’ll just tease you in the meantime. Controllers are taught to be very precise in their language. When a controllers says, “Say heading”, that should be exactly the information he wants: your heading. Not track, not course or anything else. Just the heading. And although it’s human nature to do so, it’s best not to guess at why the controller wants to know the information.

I have the following “conversation” with airline pilots on a regular basis.

CENTER: “Airliner 123 say speed.”

AIR123: “What do you need Center ?”

CENTER: “I need to know what your speed is.”

They think they’re being helpful by offering to do whatever speed we need to get our intrail to the hubs. It’s nice (polite) but it isn’t helpful. And yes, a question about speed (or heading) is often followed by a speed assignment. But both (heading and speed) have to be assigned on a relative basis. That is, relative to other aircraft. Sometimes we need information to formulate a plan.

Now, here’s some homework for all interested parties.

  1. Find the official FAA definition of “On Course Heading.”

  2. Plan and write out an AIM compliant, IFR flight plan from HKY to 1A3.

Here’s the pertinent section of the AIM.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0501.html#5-1-7

And here’s the flight plan form.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0501.html#5-1-4

Your answers are due on March 3rd.

Don Brown
NATCA_ZTL Safety Rep.

Yes, yes, I agree that ATC is expecting to hear my real heading, and I would provide that.

How about this hypothetical: you are passing GPS-direct through a sector to some far off waypoint a couple of hundred miles away in a different sector . Wouldn’t it be more useful for ATC to know your track than your heading so they can approximate better where you’ll be in the future?

So back to the original question: is asking for heading simply an artifact of all planes not being GPS equipped? If you wanted to separate traffic that is climbing or descending (with shifting winds) wouldn’t the track be more accurate than the heading?

I agree mostly. ATC asks for headings for two reasons. First is to determine winds. However, often with GPS direct routings that span multiple ATC sectors, which end at points/destnations which they are unfamiliar, sometimes they want to find out where you are going or better the route you need to take to get there.

If, and only if freq congestion permits and you are in a long enroute segment of the trip, I will sometimes say, “… Heading is two four zero, destination is 250 degrees.”

David,
ATC can SEE your track on the radar. The controller knows exactly what the track is. He/she doesn’t know the heading you’re holding to make good that track.

In reply to:


Yes, yes, I agree that ATC is expecting to hear my real heading, and I would provide that.
How about this hypothetical: you are passing GPS-direct through a sector to some far off waypoint a couple of hundred miles away in a different sector . Wouldn’t it be more useful for ATC to know your track than your heading so they can approximate better where you’ll be in the future?
So back to the original question: is asking for heading simply an artifact of all planes not being GPS equipped? If you wanted to separate traffic that is climbing or descending (with shifting winds) wouldn’t the track be more accurate than the heading?


So what do they base the altitude on? Even or odd altitudes based on track or heading?

Wouldn’t it be more useful for ATC to know your track than your heading so they can approximate better where you’ll be in the future? So back to the original question: is asking for heading simply an artifact of all planes not being GPS equipped? If you wanted to separate traffic that is climbing or descending (with shifting winds) wouldn’t the track be more accurate than the heading? <<<

I’m not educated on ATC ways, but based on my personal experience the answer would be an clear no. It would be a pointless extra step for them to translate every command they give into an actual ground track heading. When he asks your heading, it’s usually not so he can tell what your destination is, or how accurate you are flying…he has your flight plan and knows you have GPS based on filing slant golf…rather it is usually in anticipation of giving you a course change calculated in degrees relative to the heading of other traffic. An experienced controller takes into account your plane type, known winds and can figure out quickly that if he needs you to turn X degrees right or left (ie, relative to other targets on the screen), then that mean X degrees plus/minus Y degrees for wind. He simply makes a quick calculaion or guestimate, and gives you the new heading, based on the present heading you gave him. The actual ground track magnetic or true heading is irrelevant to the process. In fact, if you fly the GPS number, you will likely be off his desired course.

For example, assume you are tracking (ground and compass)with a strong direct headwind at 270 degrees, and the controller needs you to make a ground track change (and relative heading) to the right by 20 degrees. He calculates that a compass turn of 15 degrees will put you right on the course he needs you to be on, so he orders you to turn to 285. Now you have a left crosswind and so are ground tracking at 290, i.e. right 20 degrees. If you turn to 285 on the GPS, you would be five degrees off of the direction he needs you to go.

While using only ground track reference might at first seem simple from the cockpit, from the standpoint of the radar room it would be complex. in order to ensure all lanes are operating on the same relative terms, for each command the controller would have to get out a protractor, find magnetic north on the radar screen, get another tool to allow him to slide the protractor over to the image of your plane on the screen, then try to quickly figure out what the desired magnetic ground track would be, before your plane slips away to another location on the screen. Meanwhile, he may be monitoring a dozen other planes! It would never work!

On the other hand, a controller could express every command simply as turn right or left so many degrees, eg right 155, or left 170 degrees, instead of giving headings. In this case, GPS works fine. But think about it…that leaves you with the task of adding the degrees to your present heading, and at no point has the actual heading been verbally expressed over the radio. Things would quickly fall apart using such a system.

The only way that I can see that a magnetic ground track based ATC system would work would be if all planes were guaranteed to have GPS, AND the radar scope indicated actual ground track for each airplane , AND some sort of checking system (like RAIM checks) that compares planes’ GPS readings to radar readings.

I think the controllers must take some personal pride in how accurate their assigned headings are. I fly in the Washington DC area and am under control all the time. ATC knows I have GPS, but frequently give me a heading to my next waypoint, a VOR, or my home airport, when they could just as easily tell me to go direct. I make a point of flying the assigned heading precisely, rather than cheat with the GPS. It’s amazing to me how right on target ATC is almost every time, even when I start 20 miles or more away from the target

In reply to:


So what do they base the altitude on? Even or odd altitudes based on track or heading?


Paul;
Keep in mind that Florida does not observe the rules for the rest of United States aviation.

We do not have an east west rule. We have a North Odd, South Even rule. It isn’t official, but that’s the way Florida does it.

Oh, I almost forgot. Even/Odd is based upon magnetic heading, oficially anyway.

In reply to:


So what do they base the altitude on? Even or odd altitudes based on track or heading?


Paul;
Keep in mind that Florida does not observe the rules for the rest of United States aviation.

We do not have an east west rule. We have a North Odd, South Even rule. It isn’t official, but that’s the way Florida does it.

Oh, I almost forgot. Even/Odd is based upon magnetic heading, oficially anyway.

In reply to:


So what do they base the altitude on? Even or odd altitudes based on track or heading?


In controlled airspace, IFR altitudes are assigned by ATC and do not need to correlate with track or heading. Usually it will be assigned based on your course with a magnetic course of 000-179 being an odd thousand foot altitude and a magnetic course of 180-359 and even altitude but this is at ATC’s descretion. The magnetic course is the true course plus or minus the magnetic variation.

In reply to:


We do not have an east west rule. We have a North Odd, South Even rule. It isn’t official, but that’s the way Florida does it.


So that’s why pilots down there keep flipping me off as I fly by. [;)]

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Even/Odd is based upon magnetic heading…


Nope. Magnetic course. Which makes sense.

If it were heading, differing WCAs for different airspeed could cause conflicts.

In reply to:


Nope. Magnetic course. Which makes sense.
If it were heading, differing WCAs for different airspeed could cause conflicts.


mea culpa. I defer to your higher power. T’was a slip of the tongue . . . er finger . . .er . . . brain

One way to look at this is that headings are better for traffic separation and tracks are better for navigation. Since ATC’s primary job is separation, it is not surprising they prefer to work headings, and do the conversions when they need to navigate.

Good points all, except that a GPS track is a lot more precise than a mag heading. E.g., a free DG that hasn’t been realigned for a half hour or so could have precessed quite a bit. (I usually use my wet compass when asked for my heading for just that reason. But then again, how well calibrated is the average wet compass?)
I also agree that unless everyone has a GPS, ATC using track would pose some problems (though not great ones, IMHO; contrary to earlier assertions, ATC does see your track – it’s the path you’re actually making across the radar screen).

If a controller wants to give you a heading to a specific point (an intersection, for example) he/she has to first determine the track needed then then estimate and figure in the wind to get the heading. It would be a lot easier to just issue a track.

Joe

In reply to:


It would be a lot easier to just issue a track.


And it would be easy to follow that instruction if we had a track bug. But we don’t, we have a heading bug. So executing a track without a GPS fix to navigate to takes either math or bracketing, increasing workload.

In reply to:


And it would be easy to follow that instruction if we had a track bug. But we don’t, we have a heading bug.


Very true, but I donÂ’t have much trouble flying a track using my GPS readout.

Anyway, that’s how this whole thread started. We were discussing why panel mount GPSÂ’s donÂ’t have HSIÂ’s and decided itÂ’s because they would have to show heading, not track, and since all a GPS knows is track it wouldnÂ’t be legal. So the question at hand is should the ATC system hang on to the past, or accommodate a move toward the future?