Why an SR22 or SR2X NOW!

Guest Discussion
1

Excuse me, but from a strictly business prospective why would a company with a back log of orders they cannot deliver in a timely fashion divert resources to develop another plane (albeit the same basic design) at the beginning of the first product’s delivery cycle???

I don’t deny there is a time for another faster, slicker, “new and improved” model, but not when there are so many orders for the basic model remain unfilled.

If I were in Cirrus’ shoes I would NOT spend one dollar, or one hour on anything other than ramping up production and putting money in the bank. Only when the production capacity comes close to reducing the backlog of current orders to less than X years (and assuming a stronger Cirrus’ capital position) should any resources be diverted to proliferating the current product line.

Everyone of us has waited longer than promised. The skeptism in discussing the SR22 in this web page should give ample support to why product proliferation should be delayed.

If we need to keep the “design talent busy” for fear of losing them … focus on product improvemtns for the next model year! Design beter production methods, etc. The SR20 is a great airplane. Far better, in my humble opinion with now over 200 hours in one, than anything else in General Aviation.

(It’s late and I now feel better … good night)

2

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

3

If I were in Cirrus’ shoes I would NOT spend one dollar, or one hour on anything other than ramping up production and putting money in the bank.

Walt while I agree with you 100% and maybe you know something about Cirrus’ financial position I don’t (that wouldn’t be too hard, actually) but I suspect that the delay in ramping up production of the SR20 is due to a lot of things other than just availability of money.

My guess is that the bottlenecks right now are 1) production staff - you can’t just hire people overnight and put them to work building a composite aircract, and 2) the lack of a production certificate, which means that every plane has to be inspected by the FAA. I don’t know how many planes the FAA wants to see built before issuing the production certificate, but it appears to be a good deal more than have been built so far.

There may well also be some problems sourcing some of the components (what is the delivery rate of the parachutes, for example, and the GNS420 that goes into the ‘B’ model was not available until just recently, and the GNS430 was until recently on a long lead time due to high demand).

Having said that, it seems that Cirrus are currently selling around 40 planes a month, which I believe exceeds the capacity of their current facility, i.e. they could not build 40 planes a month without enlarging the factory.

I am quite sure the people at Cirrus are looking at these numbers too, and have some plans to deal with it. While it would be nice to know what those plans are, I guess that falls into the realm of commercially sensitive information.

A statement from Cirrus right now that filling current orders is the highest priority and development of the SR22 has no effect on that would probably be a good PR move. And the window of opportunity that has opened up (with Lancair still not delivering Columbia 300’s) won’t last forever.

4

If I were in Cirrus’ shoes I would NOT spend one dollar, or one hour on anything other than ramping up production and putting money in the bank. Only when the production capacity comes close to reducing the backlog of current orders to less than X years (and assuming a stronger Cirrus’ capital position) should any resources be diverted to proliferating the current product line.

Your points are very well taken, but please consider several things from cirrus’s point of view:

  1. No aircraft company has remained profitable or in business very long with only one aircraft. (Fact)

  2. The economy will not last forever - They need to establish a second airplane while the opportunity exists. Once it has a good reputation, it is more likely to survive the downturns. Look how many good airplanes failed. (fact)

  3. The factory is huge with ample space for a second assembly line, especially if many parts are common. (Assumption based on other’s first hand observations)

  4. Once cirrus does establish a production rate of 30 - 40 units a month, they will quickly burn trhough the backlog. The current sales pase has to be assumed to be a blip.

Now, clearly, I would rather the factory spend time refining the SR20 before spending time and $ on the 22. For instance, I think we all would like to see a larger useful load. Other improvements include, better wheel alignment (?) a FADEC engine, a approach plate holder, and I’m sure we all have a wish list.

But let’s not begrudge the comapny from executing their business plan. Remember it’s this plan the brought us the SR20 and it is in all of our best interest to see the company thrive. If only to ensure parts and enhance the value of our aircraft.

5

I see two apparently-contradictory but possibly-both-true ways to think about the SR22.

  • In reality, Cirrus’s planning for the next model probably is NOT a significant factor in the widely-lamented lag in SR20 production. The people doing the planning are not directly involved in speeding production. (Or so I was told when visiting there.) No significant amount of capital is tied up in the 22 yet, again as I understand it. As others have pointed out here, it’s valuable for the company to establish a broader product line. The crucial factor in working down the SR20 backlog is obviously obtaining the production certificate, so the FAA doesn’t have to check every single airplane off the line. It’s not clear that this would move any faster were there no 22 in sight.

  • But as a matter of mood and perception, the company – so sensitive and intuitive in matters of airplane design and the general image of aviation – does seem as if it could pay more attention to those who have already plunked down their dough, and at least explain the larger picture: that they’re working like crazy to get the production certif (I assume), and that conceiving of new models is part of the strong company we’d all like to see. I hope that some such thought occurs to them soon. The might take example from the last decade in political campaigning, which shows that organizations that get their story out fast, with quick cycle times (Clinton 92, Gore 00) usually outmaneuver those who take a more laidback approach to potential criticisms (Bush 92, Dole 96, Bradley 00).

This is NOT an invitation to “what about that New Hampshire primary?” musings, and it is not a suggestion that style matters more than the substance of producing a great modern airplane. Just observing part of the modern PR ecology. Jim Fallows

6

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

I second the motion and appreciate Walt’s empathy. Its still shocking to me that Hap Henwood’s plane (#41?) has been scheduled (in writing) for a 7/15 delivery. That’s barely 1 delivery a week, a far cry from the “100 planes by Oshkosh” I’d been led to believe a couple of months ago.

While still hopelessly committed to the plane and the company, it wouldn’t hurt for Cirrus to be reminded that at least some of its customers don’t appreciate the distraction while they’ve got a 500 plane backlog.

7

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

I second the motion and appreciate Walt’s empathy. Its still shocking to me that Hap Henwood’s plane (#41?) has been scheduled (in writing) for a 7/15 delivery. That’s barely 1 delivery a week, a far cry from the “100 planes by Oshkosh” I’d been led to believe a couple of months ago.

While still hopelessly committed to the plane and the company, it wouldn’t hurt for Cirrus to be reminded that at least some of its customers don’t appreciate the distraction while they’ve got a 500 plane backlog.
I DEFFINATELY think it is in Cirrus’ best interest to communicate the status of the production certificate…if not the time period

then the criteria or number of planes necessary before they get it…

Anyone speaking to them this would be a great question…a good followup would be do they anticipate that the certificate would in and of itself that week change the production rate…Thanks.

8

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

I second the motion and appreciate Walt’s empathy. Its still shocking to me that Hap Henwood’s plane (#41?) has been scheduled (in writing) for a 7/15 delivery. That’s barely 1 delivery a week, a far cry from the “100 planes by Oshkosh” I’d been led to believe a couple of months ago.

While still hopelessly committed to the plane and the company, it wouldn’t hurt for Cirrus to be reminded that at least some of its customers don’t appreciate the distraction while they’ve got a 500 plane backlog.
I DEFFINATELY think it is in Cirrus’ best interest to communicate the status of the production certificate…if not the time period

then the criteria or number of planes necessary before they get it…

Anyone speaking to them this would be a great question…a good followup would be do they anticipate that the certificate would in and of itself that week change the production rate…Thanks.

Sixteen-year-old Solos in Innovative Cirrus SR20

A Martinez, Ga., teenager is the first student pilot to solo in the

most advanced aircraft to hit the general aviation market in two decades.

Augusta, Ga. – January 31, 2000 – Jamail Larkins of Martinez, Ga., turned 16 years old yesterday; but instead of taking his driver’s license test so he could borrow the family car today, Larkins became the first student pilot to solo in a Cirrus SR20. This event is unusual because Jamail has been flying since he was 12, coupled with the fact that no student pilot has flown solo in a Cirrus SR20 – the first start-from-scratch aircraft in its category to hit the general aviation market in more than 20 years.

“It seems fitting,” said Alan Klapmeier, president and CEO of Cirrus Design Corp. “Jamail is a mature, intelligent young man who is working hard to take the world of aviation by storm. Cirrus Design is a forward-thinking, innovative company trying to do the same thing with the SR20.”

The Cirrus SR20 is a sleek, technologically advanced, FAA-certified single-engine airplane incorporating features not found on any existing production aircraft – composite materials, ten-inch moving map display and an airframe parachute system that lowers the plane to safety in the event of an emergency. Customer deliveries began in July 1999.

Cirrus Design certified flight instructor Bruce Gunter gave Larkins the go-ahead to solo in the airplane. “Jamail has flown more than 260 hours in 34 different aircraft. For him, flying the SR20 is a breeze,” said Gunter. Larkins has been ready to fly the SR20 for several months, but due to Federal Aviation Administration regulations, could not solo before age 16.

“I feel fantastic,” said the smiling Larkins as he stepped out of the airplane. “IÂ’ve waited a long time to do this. I was loving every second of it.” Larkins had hoped to solo on his birthday, but the weather on Sunday was inclement.

Cirrus Design Corporation is based in Duluth, Minn. The company designs, manufactures and markets general aviation composite aircraft, incorporating advanced technologies that result in high levels of performance, comfort and safety.

#

9

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

I second the motion and appreciate Walt’s empathy. Its still shocking to me that Hap Henwood’s plane (#41?) has been scheduled (in writing) for a 7/15 delivery. That’s barely 1 delivery a week, a far cry from the “100 planes by Oshkosh” I’d been led to believe a couple of months ago.

While still hopelessly committed to the plane and the company, it wouldn’t hurt for Cirrus to be reminded that at least some of its customers don’t appreciate the distraction while they’ve got a 500 plane backlog.
I DEFFINATELY think it is in Cirrus’ best interest to communicate the status of the production certificate…if not the time period

then the criteria or number of planes necessary before they get it…

Anyone speaking to them this would be a great question…a good followup would be do they anticipate that the certificate would in and of itself that week change the production rate…Thanks.

Sixteen-year-old Solos in Innovative Cirrus SR20

A Martinez, Ga., teenager is the first student pilot to solo in the

most advanced aircraft to hit the general aviation market in two decades.

Augusta, Ga. – January 31, 2000 – Jamail Larkins of Martinez, Ga., turned 16 years old yesterday; but instead of taking his driver’s license test so he could borrow the family car today, Larkins became the first student pilot to solo in a Cirrus SR20. This event is unusual because Jamail has been flying since he was 12, coupled with the fact that no student pilot has flown solo in a Cirrus SR20 – the first start-from-scratch aircraft in its category to hit the general aviation market in more than 20 years.

“It seems fitting,” said Alan Klapmeier, president and CEO of Cirrus Design Corp. “Jamail is a mature, intelligent young man who is working hard to take the world of aviation by storm. Cirrus Design is a forward-thinking, innovative company trying to do the same thing with the SR20.”

The Cirrus SR20 is a sleek, technologically advanced, FAA-certified single-engine airplane incorporating features not found on any existing production aircraft – composite materials, ten-inch moving map display and an airframe parachute system that lowers the plane to safety in the event of an emergency. Customer deliveries began in July 1999.

Cirrus Design certified flight instructor Bruce Gunter gave Larkins the go-ahead to solo in the airplane. “Jamail has flown more than 260 hours in 34 different aircraft. For him, flying the SR20 is a breeze,” said Gunter. Larkins has been ready to fly the SR20 for several months, but due to Federal Aviation Administration regulations, could not solo before age 16.

“I feel fantastic,” said the smiling Larkins as he stepped out of the airplane. “IÂ’ve waited a long time to do this. I was loving every second of it.” Larkins had hoped to solo on his birthday, but the weather on Sunday was inclement.

Cirrus Design Corporation is based in Duluth, Minn. The company designs, manufactures and markets general aviation composite aircraft, incorporating advanced technologies that result in high levels of performance, comfort and safety.

#

So that’s what Cirrus has been doing!!! How about a Gross Weight Increase guys?

10

Very well said, Captain Walt! And impressively altruistic (no sarcasm intended), considering that you already have your SR20! Given your unofficial role as First Captain of the Cirrus Customer Contingent, perhaps you could gently pass these thoughts on to the authorities in Duluth??

Jim F

I second the motion and appreciate Walt’s empathy. Its still shocking to me that Hap Henwood’s plane (#41?) has been scheduled (in writing) for a 7/15 delivery. That’s barely 1 delivery a week, a far cry from the “100 planes by Oshkosh” I’d been led to believe a couple of months ago.

While still hopelessly committed to the plane and the company, it wouldn’t hurt for Cirrus to be reminded that at least some of its customers don’t appreciate the distraction while they’ve got a 500 plane backlog.
I DEFFINATELY think it is in Cirrus’ best interest to communicate the status of the production certificate…if not the time period

then the criteria or number of planes necessary before they get it…

Anyone speaking to them this would be a great question…a good followup would be do they anticipate that the certificate would in and of itself that week change the production rate…Thanks.

Sixteen-year-old Solos in Innovative Cirrus SR20

A Martinez, Ga., teenager is the first student pilot to solo in the

most advanced aircraft to hit the general aviation market in two decades.

Augusta, Ga. – January 31, 2000 – Jamail Larkins of Martinez, Ga., turned 16 years old yesterday; but instead of taking his driver’s license test so he could borrow the family car today, Larkins became the first student pilot to solo in a Cirrus SR20. This event is unusual because Jamail has been flying since he was 12, coupled with the fact that no student pilot has flown solo in a Cirrus SR20 – the first start-from-scratch aircraft in its category to hit the general aviation market in more than 20 years.

“It seems fitting,” said Alan Klapmeier, president and CEO of Cirrus Design Corp. “Jamail is a mature, intelligent young man who is working hard to take the world of aviation by storm. Cirrus Design is a forward-thinking, innovative company trying to do the same thing with the SR20.”

The Cirrus SR20 is a sleek, technologically advanced, FAA-certified single-engine airplane incorporating features not found on any existing production aircraft – composite materials, ten-inch moving map display and an airframe parachute system that lowers the plane to safety in the event of an emergency. Customer deliveries began in July 1999.

Cirrus Design certified flight instructor Bruce Gunter gave Larkins the go-ahead to solo in the airplane. “Jamail has flown more than 260 hours in 34 different aircraft. For him, flying the SR20 is a breeze,” said Gunter. Larkins has been ready to fly the SR20 for several months, but due to Federal Aviation Administration regulations, could not solo before age 16.

“I feel fantastic,” said the smiling Larkins as he stepped out of the airplane. “IÂ’ve waited a long time to do this. I was loving every second of it.” Larkins had hoped to solo on his birthday, but the weather on Sunday was inclement.

Cirrus Design Corporation is based in Duluth, Minn. The company designs, manufactures and markets general aviation composite aircraft, incorporating advanced technologies that result in high levels of performance, comfort and safety.

#

So that’s what Cirrus has been doing!!! How about a Gross Weight Increase guys?

Yes, you are right… instead of taking care of us, the people that have paid the down payment, they are doing a road show. This is sad. I still have not gotten my ride and I am sure there are plenty like me. I think Cirrus needs to redirect their goals and start taking care of their CUSTOMERS. If they keep this up, when they need our help, we may donate our money to Mooney. Have a great day guys and gals…

Woor #324 3/01 ???

pilot4hire@bigfoot.com

11

The “SR22” has been on the drawing board almost as long as the SR20 itself. The airframe, chute system, and most other components were designed with the idea of putting a larger engine in the same package soon after introduction. That of course does not mean the SR22 can get to market instantly, but I am with those who believe it would be folly not to pursue it.

Speaking with Tom Bergeron the other day, while it seems Cirrus has not yet sorted out the issues of how the two order books might relate to each other, it does seem clear that the SR22 will not keep any current order holders from getting their planes any sooner, nor will any new SR22 positions get delivered before current SR20s.

If Cirrus were to allow a new SR22 position-holder to get a plane before ALL of the current backlog is filled they would have a PR nightmare on their hands, but I believe they are smarter than that. The SR22 certificate program is simply a queueing mechanism, and is totally refundable at present while they sort it out and make a decision about production.

The ramp-up of production of any new aircraft is a complex process, and while I am as frustrated as the next guy with the wait I am glad to see them pushing the product line along. This gives them a better chance of being around in 10+ years when the fleet starts aging and needs support.

I see two apparently-contradictory but possibly-both-true ways to think about the SR22.

  • In reality, Cirrus’s planning for the next model probably is NOT a significant factor in the widely-lamented lag in SR20 production. The people doing the planning are not directly involved in speeding production. (Or so I was told when visiting there.)