see the accident with the bonanza at Telluride airport several years back
don
Trip
Were you PIC or was I? Or were either of us? Was anyone really? I learned an awful lot regardles. Thanks much
This is a great reminder to us cfi’s that we should come into every flight with a jug full of stfu to keep us occupied.
I’ve been there before, on both sides. The worst thing I ever find myself doing (and one of my bad habits I do more than I care to admit) is to try to help out when my help is not needed. It can be tuning a frequency just to keep myself from becoming too bored or pulling up a checklist without being asked. And yes, sometimes even giving my own suggestions of how someone could make a little change to make things easier. If the timing of these well intentioned little things are wrong, they can distract or shake someone’s confidence.
The problem lies in that most students we deal with need our help in one way or another and occasionally make an unintended attempt to kill everyone onboard. We are accustom to always doing or saying something and it takes a lot of discipline and a few years of instructing to learn when it’s ok to bite your tongue, sip on some stfu juice and take some notes about how the student is doing things “all wrong.” Only to scratch that note out because they actually do know what they’re doing If we just give them 20 seconds to show us.
Dennis…that’s a really nice response!
Ive made a lot of friends with flight instructors who I ve found as a whole to be a nice lot…generally helpful, selfless, kind people. Thanks for what you do! I dont think its for the $$!
Regarding sterile cockpit, one of the nice features I have come to like in the SF50 is the pilot isolate button on the side stick.
John:
Nice post.
I have to say that choosing what to say and when to say it is the most difficult aspect of being a flight instructor for me. We cram our heads with so much knowledge it takes a long time to accumulate the wisdom to keep quiet and to provide just the right nugget at just the right moment. I am still working on it.
After getting immersed in the CPPP Command and Control ethos over the last few years, I now try to treat the exchange of command as explicitly as we have been taught to treat the exchange of control. I may take command to coach a pilot through the steps of a procedure, while he or she retains control. During an IPC, it gets a bit slippery. The instructor orchestrates the tasks to be performed to meet the requirements of the IPC, which is a degree of command. But ultimately, the pilot should be in command of how those tasks are performed. Sometimes an instructor slips. It was right for you to assert command (PIC as you called it) when the instructor overstepped.
It sounds like the instructor responded well to your push-back. Others asserting that he is “toxic“ or a “shameful twerp” is not particularly helpful, IMHO. There but for the grace of God go I. It sounds like Jeff Hood and his instructor have worked it out how to handle those slips perfectly, as have you.
Thanks for sharing.
A little late to this ballgame, but it was too interesting to pass up.
CFI’s must be the PIC on some instructional flights, but not all, per 61.3©(2). So the answer to the question “Who is PIC” is not automatically the CFI when a CFI is in the right seat. If the pilot flying lacks the ratings required for the flight, the CFI must be the PIC for the flight. But when the pilot flying has the qualifications and is current to act as PIC for a flight with an instructor, the pilot flying and the CFI can agree that the pilot flying will be PIC for the flight. Applying this to the OP’s IPC situation, the OP was PIC at all times, if they so agreed before the flight, provided that the flight was conducted under VFR. If conducted under IFR, the CFII was PIC at all times, no matter what they may have agreed before hand, since the OP is not IFR current and cannot act as PIC under IFR.
If a non-current instrument rated pilot needs an IPC under 61.57(d), he cannot act as PIC while flying under IFR (whether IMC or VMC) per 61.57©. He can, however, act as PIC if flying under VFR while practicing approaches. If flying practice approaches in VFR under the hood so he can log them, he needs a safety pilot qualified under 91.109©. But the pilot practicing can remain the PIC while under the hood while VFR, since 61.57© does not prohibit a pilot non-current for IFR under 61.57©(1) from acting as PIC while operating on a VFR flight. If this non-current pilot requires an IPC under 61.57(d), he cannot regain currency with a safety pilot who is not a CFII (the safety pilot need not even be instrument rated), no matter how many practice approaches he successfully completes under the hood in VFR conditions.
If the safety pilot is a CFII, however, a successful IPC is a possible outcome of the VFR flight under the hood, even if the CFII is not the PIC by agreement with the pilot. If after a VFR flight under the hood the CFII’s evaluation concludes that the pilot has met the standards of an IPC, he can sign the pilot off. All while not acting as PIC. There is no requirement that an IPC be conducted on an IFR flight.
Now if the CFII will not sign the pilot off for an IPC while operating under VFR, but requires the pilot to demonstrate that he can file an IFR flight plan and operate the flight under IFR, the non-current pilot cannot be PIC under 61.57©. In that case, even if the two pilots agree otherwise, the FAA will regard the CFII as PIC no matter what, because the non-current guy cannot be PIC while flying under IFR.
For those CFII’s who require IPCs be flown under IFR, they will always be the PIC while administering an IPC to a non-current pilot. If VFR is OK by the CFII, then maybe the pilot getting evaluated is the PIC, if they so agreed before the flight.
I’m not saying how a jury might decide, that depends too much upon the players in the courtroom. But for purposes of enforcement actions and NTSB rulings, a pilot should not be the target of an enforcement action if there has been no FAR violation under circumstances where the pilot was qualified and current to act as PIC for the flight contemplated, and his CFI so agrees.
So, like many other circumstances, the answer to the question “Do the FARs require a CFI to be the PIC?” is, “It depends.”
The worst cardinal sin a CFI can commit is to try to change a pilots technique (that works) just because the CFI happens to like another better. It should be the First Commandment of instructing,
Nice feature. While I have it on the audio panel, having it there is awesome.