First of all I’m very happy to find a site like this dedicated to the cirrus.
I’m a student with about 30 hours. My flight school just got a cirrus SR20 and I’m scheduled to fly it for a few hours this weekend. I’m wondering if any of you have some advice as to what I can expect and/or what might be helpful for me to know. I’ve always loved the plane for its appearance and it’s gorgeous avionics setup, but I’ve never had the pleasure of flying it. I’m sure that once I fly it this weekend I will be hooked and will look to maybe buy one by the end of my training.
Having said that, for those of you who own cirruses, what is the purchase process like? The only way I would consider purchasing would be to lease it back to the flight school and make some money off of it. What type of finance deals does cirrus offer?
One suggestion would be to join COPA. You’ll find a ton of good guidance on the member’s only forum. Using the search feature you’ll find most of what you need in gory detail.
I’m a fairly new owner of a Cirrus SR20. The purchase process went fairly well. As to your main question, the financing offered by Cirrus (through a 3rd party) does not allow for leasing/placement in a school. You’ll need to read the fine print! In the end, you migh need to find alternative financing or pay in cash when you buy the plane for such a pupose.
What can I tell you about the plane. It is absolutely wonderful! I’ve got 25 hours into the plane now and I can’t wait to fly it again!
The main thing I noticed in transitioning into an SR20 was the proper technique of landing. You do not do a full stall touchdown in the Cirrus. Get the picture of the attitude of the plane sitting on the ground with your view over the glare shield. Touchdown is with the nose about 5 degrees higher than that attitude with full flaps. With no flaps the flare will be nose higher, about 10 to 15 degrees. Don’t flare more or you may drag the tail. If you have been flying a Cessna or most other trainers, a full stall at touchdown is standard and proper. The difference is that the angle of attack of the Cirrus wing when it stalls is very high. This is due to the leading edge cuff on the outboard half of the wing and the upswept wingtips.
I can never make a good landing in the Cirrus without compulsively maintaining the proper numbers in the approach:
100kt downwind, 90kt and half flaps on base, 80kt on final with full flaps after turning final. In the school at Duluth I was taught to maintain 80 over the fence, but If I do at a weight 400 or 500 under gross I float too far down the runway. I prefer 1.3 x stalling speed which is about 73kt.
Have fun!
Hi there, the first thing I would do is a search on “landing” and “transitioning” here in the public forum. There are several informative threads that walk through a lot of the characteristics of landing the Cirrus.
You will see many talking of the challenge of transition, and many about how easy it is to land the Cirrus. I’ve written from both sides, and once I passed through a difficult transition, landing my SR20 now feels second nature.
The 20 is a wonderfully capable, fast, high-situational-awareness traveller. You will love it.
Lease-backs. I don’t recall reading about any other 20s or 22s leased-back. This is not anywhere near as common as it is in the Cessna world. I would offer two thoughts:
1–I wouldn’t want a student pilot bouncing my 20 down the runway, and neither would my insurance co. With 210 TT at 90 TIT, no inst, I pay enough as it is. (Never having been involved in leaseback…perhaps the FBO covers the difference?)
2–Is there enough of a local market for Cirrus instruction that you would be able to fill the hours? Especially if you specified that prospective renters had 250 TT?
Well the reason why I ask is that the 20 at the flight school is apparently owned by a student there. He bought it and now is making money from the flight school from them renting it out. I figured that this would be a simple way to actually afford the thing.
As far as the transitioning, I’m sure I’ll enjoy the cirrus and want to rent it every time I fly. My instructor said that we’ll do some maneuvers and get comfortable in it. He also said, “It’s sweet, you’ll love it.”
As far as the insurance is concerned, I would guess that the flight school is responsible for a good part if not all of it. Since it would be them paying me to rent it to their clients, it would seem to be their responsibility to pay the difference as their liability would be much greater as well.
For the demand…well…lets just say that the cirrus that the school has now is rarely on the ground. I’m sure I would have no problem filling the time. In addition, the guy that owns the cirrus at the school is making money back quickly. Another instructor told me that he’ll probably make his money back and more.
In addition, the guy that owns the cirrus at the school is making money back quickly. Another instructor told me that he’ll probably make his money back and more.
Hi Blaine,
I have no personal history in leasebacks. However, I’d just caution you to do a lot of research before spending the money for a Cirrus (or any other plane) for leaseback purposes.
It has been my (non-first-hand) experience that very few people actually MAKE money through a leaseback - most just hope to offset some costs. And it’s also fairly common for FBOs or instructors to be overly optimistic about the chances for making money, in hopes of increasing their fleet…
Another instructor told me that he’ll probably make his money back and more.
You do have to realize that a lot of CFI are instructors not businessmen. The always see the money coming in, but not the money going out for things like Insur, maint(100 hour), reserve for engine, cylinder, monthly payment, washing etc. Think really hard before you go into a leaseback. As others have stated, only very few people make money on leasebacks. ** Avweb** have some articles regarding leasebacks. Might be a good idea to read 'em.
I’d be very careful about a leaseback unless you REALLY understand the economics of the deal. Flight schools generally want to use leasebacks to give them a source of low cost aircraft for flight training. I’ve seldom heard of a flight school leaseback on an “upmarket” aircraft which actually made the owner money.
And, there is the issue of how well trained the renters will be.
Not saying its impossible, but tread very carefully and get some specific input from others re costs, conditions, etc.
One place to start is to contact the owner of the current aircraft on the flight line and see what his/her experience has been - financial results as well as satisfaction with the process.
It has been my (non-first-hand) experience that very few people actually MAKE money through a leaseback
Steve,
I agree that’s usually the case. But demand out here in NorCal is very high, and at $225/hr the SR22’s are fully booked. That may be a transitory state as more ships come on line, but for now its the best chance to actually make money on a lease-back that’s come along in some time.
I just got back from flying the cirrus. I was extremely amazed. I loved how large it is compared to the diamond or cessna. Also, despite what I’ve heard, I felt that it handled quite well on the ground. It responded to all me very well.
I loved the large mfd. I didn’t really play with it much, but it was good to just reference the map here and there to see where we were. Also, the overall arrangement of the avionics was excellent.
Today we did some maneuvers in the cirrus and went up the hudon river vfr corridor once I got used to the feel of the plane. Overall I thought that one of the nicest things about the plane was that it maintains altitude and position very well with the electronic trim. I hadn’t used it for the beginning of my flight, and my instructor said just to rely on that. What a difference it made…
You were all right - transitioning to a cirrus landing was the most difficult part. I still didn’t master the technique. I kept wanting to flare subconsciously and always put it down harder than I would have liked. I think I’ll focus on a more flat landing next time I fly the thing. I got 4 takeoffs and landings in the plane though, and I enjoyed every minute of flying it!
Demmand is high and so far I think West Valley is the only place that has them online. I’m surprised that no one has put a Cirrus in the East Bay yet. I know from experience(have had an aircraft on leaseback before) that there are clubs that take a smaller cut, and have members who have the finnancial where with all to fly aircraft at those rates.
I’d support it, with the dollars I spend on 172 and 182’s currently.
The main thing I noticed in transitioning into an SR20 was the proper technique of landing. You do not do a full stall touchdown in the Cirrus. Get the picture of the attitude of the plane sitting on the ground with your view over the glare shield. Touchdown is with the nose about 5 degrees higher than that attitude with full flaps. With no flaps the flare will be nose higher, about 10 to 15 degrees. Don’t flare more or you may drag the tail. If you have been flying a Cessna or most other trainers, a full stall at touchdown is standard and proper. The difference is that the angle of attack of the Cirrus wing when it stalls is very high. This is due to the leading edge cuff on the outboard half of the wing and the upswept wingtips.
I can never make a good landing in the Cirrus without compulsively maintaining the proper numbers in the approach:
100kt downwind, 90kt and half flaps on base, 80kt on final with full flaps after turning final. In the school at Duluth I was taught to maintain 80 over the fence, but If I do at a weight 400 or 500 under gross I float too far down the runway. I prefer 1.3 x stalling speed which is about 73kt.
Nevin,
I agree that most people fly too fast over the numbers - numerous threads on this. As for a “full stall touchdown”, I always aim for (and almost always get) a satisfying bleat from the stall warning shortly before the wheels touch. I don’t like to let it land until I hear it. For over-the-fence speeds, I like 1.3 x Vs LESS one knot for each 100lbs that the airplane is below gross max weight.
Regarding the landing attitude - again, much written about that on these forums. If you watch a Cirrus landing from the outside, it looks remarkably normal, in no way obviously or significantly flat for a low-wing G.A. airplane. However, it does (at first) appear to be too flat (or nose-low) from the inside, when transitioning from many other airplanes… and one reason is the low-cut of the glareshield. Another is that one sits up pretty high in the Cirrus seats. The very thing that makes transitioning pilots say “Wow, the visibility in this thing is phenomenal!” while they’re flying around is what makes them think it lands flat.
This all sounds very interesting…I’m sure that my instructor will go over all of these things with me. But it’s good to have a starting point for speeds in the pattern. I usually rely on speeds as well and lately I’ve been trying to pinpoint the exact rpm settings for my pattern speeds as well.
Mike, what airport do you fly in and out of? I saw that you live in Edison and perhaps you fly out of Morristown as well? I’m in Summit, taking my lessons out at KMMU.
Mike, what airport do you fly in and out of? I saw that you live in Edison and perhaps you fly out of Morristown as well? I’m in Summit, taking my lessons out at KMMU.
Blaine,
Wow, we’re practically neighbors! I fly out of KBLM – variously called Monmouth Executive, Allaire, Farmindale, Belmar and a lot of other names when it snows and they don’t clear it fast enough.
It has a very nice 7,300’ runway – a favorite with area instructors for that reason, because it takes time to lean to land the airplane where you want it to touch down. C’mon down and I’ll give you and your instructor a ride in N1MR!
