Should I buy a Cirrus ?

Guest Discussion
1

First post here and also from the UK. I have read this forum with great interest and there is a lot of useful information here for which I am grateful to all posters’.

The reason for me joining here is that I am a student PPL (mature.44 yrs)and am looking to be licenced by May this year. I am learning in a C172 but a 25 yr old model.( We do not have many Cirrus here and certainly not at flight schools). I want to buy a new aircraft when qualified and have been considering a C182 / Diamond Star or Cirrus SR22G2. I am researching the possibility of what to buy now as I want to be ‘ready’ to order when I am qualified and any of those are within the budget. I would like to ask people for views as to :- am I being too optimistic in qualifying and then buying my own plane ? I would also like some valued opinions from Cirrus owners on the following thoughts I have had :

  1. I need it to carry 4 adults+ luggage 300+ nm around the UK and within 2 years time to Spain and France (500-800nm)
  2. I want space, luxury and time to enjoy the flights so flight management / workload reduction would be welcomed;
  3. Am I being too optimistic to handle the power( possibly an SR22 G"2 GTS New One)so soon after gaining my licence ( I am a cautious person and am not looking to take ANY risks and go ‘loop di loop’ the hour after getting my licence). I have also never flown a ‘side stick control’.
  4. Having never flown a ‘low wing’ (only a 172), what are the pro’s and con’s of either low or high or is it personal preference?
    5)In considering Diamond , I guess the useful weight may rule it out albeit a diesel engine is nice ( don’t forget our ‘Gas’ here in the UK costs nearly 10 bucks a gallon now) !
  5. The C182 is on delivery of 12 months and whilst proven for many years, is still not the comfort ‘animal’ I crave’

All that said, it brings me to the SR22 G2 GTS. Every gizzmo I could want and need, luxury, competence, extra power for the eventual ‘longer’ trips to Spain. What I think I am right in saying is I should probably NOT buy an SR20 due to useful load and buy a plane I will want to keep rather than buy an older 182 / sr20 and eventually trading up. If money were not the predetermining factor am I right to be thinking the SR22 G2 GTS is the ‘one for me’ ?
I have to start somewhere and I want to make sure I am in the ‘right place’.
Very best regards

John

2

In reply to:

First post here and also from the UK. I have read this forum with great interest and there is a lot of useful information here for which I am grateful to all posters’.
The reason for me joining here is that I am a student PPL (mature.44 yrs)and am looking to be licenced by May this year. I am learning in a C172 but a 25 yr old model.( We do not have many Cirrus here and certainly not at flight schools). I want to buy a new aircraft when qualified and have been considering a C182 / Diamond Star or Cirrus SR22G2. I am researching the possibility of what to buy now as I want to be ‘ready’ to order when I am qualified and any of those are within the budget. I would like to ask people for views as to :- am I being too optimistic in qualifying and then buying my own plane ? I would also like some valued opinions from Cirrus owners on the following thoughts I have had :

  1. I need it to carry 4 adults+ luggage 300+ nm around the UK and within 2 years time to Spain and France (500-800nm)
  2. I want space, luxury and time to enjoy the flights so flight management / workload reduction would be welcomed;
  3. Am I being too optimistic to handle the power( possibly an SR22 G"2 GTS New One)so soon after gaining my licence ( I am a cautious person and am not looking to take ANY risks and go ‘loop di loop’ the hour after getting my licence). I have also never flown a ‘side stick control’.
  4. Having never flown a ‘low wing’ (only a 172), what are the pro’s and con’s of either low or high or is it personal preference?
    5)In considering Diamond , I guess the useful weight may rule it out albeit a diesel engine is nice ( don’t forget our ‘Gas’ here in the UK costs nearly 10 bucks a gallon now) !
  5. The C182 is on delivery of 12 months and whilst proven for many years, is still not the comfort ‘animal’ I crave’
    All that said, it brings me to the SR22 G2 GTS. Every gizzmo I could want and need, luxury, competence, extra power for the eventual ‘longer’ trips to Spain. What I think I am right in saying is I should probably NOT buy an SR20 due to useful load and buy a plane I will want to keep rather than buy an older 182 / sr20 and eventually trading up. If money were not the predetermining factor am I right to be thinking the SR22 G2 GTS is the ‘one for me’ ?
    I have to start somewhere and I want to make sure I am in the ‘right place’.
    Very best regards
    John

Remember John Wayne?
Right now, he might say, “Woaa partner, what’s your rush”.

John;
You are making too many decisions too quickly.
How about learning to fly first. AND while I’m at it, why do you have to spend the family jewels on the best, the biggest, the most powerful, etc.
At this stage, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Take your time.
All of those planes mentioned are great planes, but did you marry the 1st girl you dated?

If you want to buy a plane to learn, all are good (and of course, on this forum, Cirrus are the best)
Get a pre-owned, plane at a reasonable price and just learn to fly and I don’t mean manage technology. I mean stick and rudder flying.
There will be time for the rest, but we want you to learn the basics first.

3

John,
I was in your situation two months ago and I started my investigation the same way you did. I “flew” the SR 22 demo back then before flying my first student hour. I bet Iggy the Sales rep, did everything but anyway it felt great !

I placed an order for a SR20 because of what I thought was more of a trainer, but after thinking about Weight issues I changed my mind in favor of a 22.

Youll be amazed of the help you can get from all of the Great COPA members, but definitely there is much more info on the member section.

I also though about the age of the plane it was an important factor in my decision.

Good luck.

Guillermo

4

Go for the 22!!!

5

John,
I have already seen this movie:

  • I am not yet “mature”, but almost 44 YO
  • I have gained my license last may 2004
  • all training in C-172, 20 to 30 years old
  • I have “tested” (let’s say, tryied to fly) a Diamond 40 with diesel engine before
  • then I have seen the SR20, and decided.
    Now I am flying a lot N8152E, since May about 180 hours.

My experience is the following:

  • test the D40, and you’ll agree that there is no comparison (price/value/performance/luxury) with SR20. (In MY opinion it’s not time for diesel, now: after they’ll have sold 1000 DA40 tdi in Europe, it will be time for me. You can understand what I mean: I don’t like t be one of the first owners in Italy).
  • SR20 is exciting, easy to fly, and you’ll be expert in the sidestick in few hours (probably in a shorter time than a very long experienced real pilot).
  • The avionic is very complete, after a good training you’ll have a big help. I can suggest to purchase the really important optional stuff: Emax engine control, 55 autopilot.

No doubt? The only doubt I have now is that maybe it was better to choose an SR22: better performances and a very similar beahviour (I have had some 13 hours IFR training in a SR22 last summer).

For me there is no choise, currently: if you can afford the price: SR22. If you prefer to get more experienced, SR20 is very similar, same luxury and avionics, but slower.

Hope my poor english can be understood.
Should you need any further opinion, please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Bye, Stefano.

6

In reply to:

Should I buy a Cirrus?

No.

7

In reply to:

No.

Just kidding, John. [;)]
There are a number of COPA members who went right into the SR22 after finishing their primary training. It is certainly achievable. The SR22 is a wonderful and safe (with the caveat that it’s still an aircraft) design, but like any fast aircraft, it can bite you if you get too far behind it. So, if you go this route, make sure that you work out a thorough course of instruction that goes beyond the minimums required by insurance. I would give you this advice on any high-performance or complex airplane, though.

If you are at all serious about flying a Cirrus, please join COPA because, as some have pointed out already, there is a wealth of information (ownership, training, safety, etc…) on the member’s side that would very much apply to you.

Regardless of whether you join, though, keep us updated on what you eventually decide regarding aircraft. It is always an interesting and educational process seeing what guys end up choosing and their reasons for it. [:)]

8

I bought the SR22 7 months ago and actually did my private training and my IFR in the last 7 months in my plane and wouldn’t have done it any other way. Buy the 22 because you’ll regret it later if you don’t! Friends don’t let friends buy Cessna or Diamond! Just kidding.

9

I also am considering buying a Cirrus, but think that the SR22 is overkill for pleasure flying in the UK. The longest distance (Land’s End to John O’Groats) is about 600 miles, which at 75% power, with no wind, would take 3.5 hours in a SR20, and only 30 minutes less in a SR22. However, the SR20 would be burning 12.7 gph, compared with the SR22’s 18 gph. Luckily, global warming will not affect the USA, but our government reckons it’s a bigger threat than global terrorism, so fuel consumption is an important factor.

I’m looking forward to a test flight in a SR20 next month.

Keith MacDonald

10

John

Like many others have said here, yes its possible for you to move straight to a Cirrus.

From reading and re-reading your post (I had to re-read it to check that this was not some reflection of ME in January 2002 3 months before I got MY PPL!) you seem to be a level headed guy trying hard to make rational decisions, without meeting you and discussing your approach to flying, its hard to make a recomendation.

All I can do is reflect on what you have said, and add a word of caution, then say absolutely YES GO FOR IT WAIT NO LONGER!

So first the word of caution: The Cirrus is an Airplane, and like any other airplane it can kill you. BUT like anyother airplane, if you take it seriously, and commit your self to learning it and flying safely, (Join COPA is a good start) then its the safest more enjoyable, most comfortable aircraft you could go for. Its also possibly the most economical short of a diesel - even in the UK when measured on a £/mile basis.

So Caution over, some answers:

  • Side Stick - will take you minuites to adjust, this is not a “Stick” its a “Side Yoke”, if you fly with a Yoke already (you do) then its all the same movements except you are moving in roll around the axis of your arm, rather than around a center point offset from your arm. MUCH more natural and controlable.

  • Low wing? a small issue in your transition training, you have to learn and practice your speeds and landing technique until its natural, you will have to do this on a transition to any new type. Once Mastered the Cirrus is really predictable and easy to land.

  • Payload & Range? For touring, even to Scotland (I bought my SR20 when I had 67 hours, specifically to commute London/Glasgow) the SR22 is the best choice. In the Cruise your fuel/mile will be about the same as the SR20, but flying time is less, meaning it could be cheaper than the SR20, insurance aside, other running costs are identical. The SR20 is not good for Grass strips in the UK, or for flying from our short strips in hot summer days at full load, the SR22 will handle this better and that means more safety.

  • If you want to “train” and do shorter flights however, from paved runways, with 2/3 people the SR20 is adiquate and still better then the nearest competition.

  • If you are touring in the UK you will soon have to deal with flying above the freezing level, and soon you will have an IMC rating. The SR22 with de-ice is very useful, you cannot get that on the SR20

  • High Performance airplanes? What throttle setting do you want to use? You can fly an SR22 arround the UK at 110-130 knots if you want. You don’t have to go fast! You will learn to slow up to give you time to not get behind the plane in the early hours.The SR22 is amazing, its handles perfectly from 80 - 180 knots. You decide!

  • Workload and Comfort? No contest, you can fly a Cirrus for hours and get our refreshed and rested, if you are a “modern man” (you are the same age as me!) mastering the avionics will be a joy.

So I have no doubt from your post that the Cirrus is the right choice, given your aspirations, so long as you have the right attitude towards your training, transition and risk/ability evaluations for each flight. There are plenty of us Cirrus pilots now in the UK - so find out who is closest to you and team up for knowledge sharing and support.

I got my first SR20 having 67 hours on my licence (10 rotary and 57 fixed wing). Since then I have never flown P1 in anything but a Cirrus. I would never go back. I now have 860 hours and and FAA/IR. The SR20 was Perfect for UK trips, except for the lack of de-ice needed as I began to do more IMC/IFR work, and the lack of payload to fly to further European destinations.

So if you want your own plane to joy ride around the UK - buy an SR20. If you plan to progress to get an FAA/IR, and Conquer Europe, and use it for reliable personal transportation get an SR22.

Let me know where abouts you are in the UK, and I will come and fly with you, and discuss this in full length.

Have a quick look at my web site to see how we enjoy our Cirrus, then phone me on 07967965298 to meet up.

Alternatively join COPA less than £30!, and register for our COPA Europe New Year Dinner in London next Thursday 27th Jan and come and meet us! You would be more than welcome.

Ian

PS See you in the Members Forum!

11

John,

It seems you’ve made your decision already, but for what its worth.

I also started training in a “NYC Taxi” cessna 172 I think it was of the seventies vintage. Subsequently I continued my training in a newer 172 '99 and then '01’s. I decided after my training to buy an '01 172. I bought it in CA I live in CT and flew it back to CT myself, and learned a lot on that trip accross the continent. At least once on that trip I was very happy that I had the skyhawk’s forgiveness as I was not all that experienced in xwind landings and came away with a good lesson. After 400 hours and many long trips including ones to Montana, and St. Martin, yes ST. Martin in the carribbean, I decided I was ready to move up to a more cabable airplane and did about 75 hours in a 182 and 20 of that was recently with the G1000. I am now flying an SR22 and have about 30 hours in it. I know that this is the old school method of learning, by moving up. However, It gave me the confidence and the ability to be able to handle the SR22 with competance and confidence. The 182 was a fine airplane as was the skyhawk. The speed does eventually get to you and you do want something faster. It may make sense for you to try the 182, firm up your skills and experience and then get into something faster by selling the 182 and then buying the SR22. The cessna products are not bad, they are proven old school workhorses that are very forgiving, and that is a little bit of experience that cant hurt you.

I am certainly not saying that you shouldn’t jump right into the SR22, I am just offering you my experience as a different point of view from some of the other posts. Incidently it was a gentleman from the UK that bought my 172 and had it ferried over the pond an interesting story in its own right.

12

I got my SR22 about 10 days after I got my PPL and did the transtion trainig which is the key to flying the safest plane made. When it came to what plane I was going to buy My 7 year old daugther made it easy, I was talking to my wife about which plane and my daughter said, dad which one is the safest!!! and the rest is easy other then the cost. There is no other plane that I would rather fly!!!1

13

I did it as follows and highy recommend this track: Got my private in C172. Get any bad landings out of the way in a trainer owned by a flight school expressly for this purpose. And everyone must do a solo cross county without a GPS, just looking out the window and comparing to the map and hoping that VOR is got you on track. One you get your private you can place your Cirrus order and get the training POH they send you. Negotiate your insurance on your total time plus 10 or 15 hours… read on. When the POH arrives learn it and study inside and out. While you are waiting delivery of your new Cirrus find a CSIP instructor somewhere with a cirrus. Log 10 to 15 hours in the plane. Now you are ready to go to Duluth. Pick up your plane and do the transition training, those 10 to 15 hours of advance work will pay big dividends in your transition training. Your insurance company will almost surely require another 50 to 100 hours dual, which is a good thing. Now get your instrument rating in your Cirrus. The timing should work out just about right and you should come out the other end with an instrument rating and somewhere between 60 and 110 hours in type. You have an instrument rating in a Cirrus, which is so different from an instrument rating in a C172. Now you should be confident and safe to solo in your new Cirrus but of course, the learning never ends. Plus when your second year insurance renewal rolls around your rates will be perhaps half of year one thanks to those hours under your belt and an instrument rating. I love my SR22 GTS!

14

The answer to your question is YES Buy a Cirrus.

I owned a Cessna R172K Hawk XP for a number of years befor buying an SR22G2 last year.

The transition is a non event and the side stick will seem easy after only a few minutes.
You should do the transition training with a Cirrus instructor and should have no problem with the extra power.
When you have a few hours in the Cirrus you will NEVER want to fly anything else.
I bought my Cirrus to carry out the same requirements as you!
I own a house in Spain and fly down as often as possible.
Rochester (EGTO) to Girona (LEGE)non stop in 3 hours and still with 40 galls of fuel left on arrival.
It was a six hour trip in the Cessna with a fuel stop half way!
You will never regret buying a Cirrus.

Best regards

Trevor Pickering N222SW SR22G2

15

John,

Try this previous but similar thread.

  • Mike.
16

Thats a good point,but I think John’s question might have been ,“is it do-able”…yes it is, there are plenty that have jumped right in w both feet… is this the right time, who knows? there are many reasons to wait and learn
etc

fred w

17

I bought a Cirrus before holding a Private Pilot license and don’t regret it for a moment. I caution you on the useful load… work through some weight and balance… make sure that the aircraft meets your expectation.

There is no better…but I am biased.
Dan E. Tanner,PE, PLS
Dan@TannerBaitShop.Com

18

In reply to:

Thats a good point,but I think John’s question might have been ,“is it do-able”…yes it is,

OOOH, I misunderstood.
Yes, it is do-able. Several have died doing it. Certinaly not all . . . not even most . . . just some. So yes, it is do-able.
I am sorry, but the tenor of the post just suggests that, oh never mind.

19

In reply to:

However, the SR20 would be burning 12.7 gph, compared with the SR22’s 18 gph.

Not to rekindle the ROP/LOP debate, but…

Many SR22 drivers spend most of their time around 170k at 12 to 14 gph

20

In reply to:

I also am considering buying a Cirrus, but think that the SR22 is overkill for pleasure flying in the UK. The longest distance (Land’s End to John O’Groats) is about 600 miles, which at 75% power, with no wind, would take 3.5 hours in a SR20, and only 30 minutes less in a SR22. However, the SR20 would be burning 12.7 gph, compared with the SR22’s 18 gph. Luckily, global warming will not affect the USA, but our government reckons it’s a bigger threat than global terrorism, so fuel consumption is an important factor.
I’m looking forward to a test flight in a SR20 next month.
Keith MacDonald

Keith

As has been posted here before, the SR22 can fly at equivalent speeds and fuel burn as the SR20 whenever you want, just by throttling back.
The poster specified

In reply to:

  1. I need it to carry 4 adults+ luggage 300+ nm around the UK and within 2 years time to Spain and France (500-800nm)

800lbs of people and bags leaves the SR20 21 gallons of fuel, while the SR22 would have 58 gallons.
The SR22 offers much more utility (load/range) for JohnUK’s 4 adult requirement.