Motorcycle On Board?

Flying is safe, motorcycles aren’t!

David:

I like the concept, and wish I could afford one - both in financial terms as well as operationally.

For me, the biggest obstacle would be the cost. It would be, in fact, cost prohibitive. $8,000 for a 250cc is insane from the perspective of a motorcycle owner. I currently own a 2006 Kawasaki ZX10R (1000cc) that cost me less than that; of course, I can’t fold the handle bars in my ZX10R.

Operationally, the weigth penalty for the system would be substantial. My SR20 full fuel (56 gallons) payload is a mere 469lbs. After installation of pod+motorcycle, I would be able to load a combined 204lbs of passangers and baggage; not much, considering I am 190lbs.

Again, I like the concept, but it is not for me (cost) or for my airplane (weight).

I wish you all the best, but I think you will have a rough time attracting Cirrus owners with your product.

Mario

Roger,

I wonder if perhaps the “Cirrus crowd” is not the perfect market for this thing? Of course there are all types of people who fly Cirruses, but I wonder if the OP would find a higher percentage of, say, 182 pilots (or maybe Cherokee Six or Dakota pilots, etc.) who would be into that type of thing, as opposed to Cirrus pilots.

Its an interesting idea. Why not spend some time devising a way to get a bike into the cargo area inside a Cirrus. I have no interest in an external solution, but I would be very interested in some mode of transporation other than a bicycle that I could get into the cargo area of the plane.

Lee,

We currently convert Yamaha XT-225 motorcycles to fit in our RV-10 pods. We plan to make other motorcycles available in the future. We are also looking into the new electric commutor bike from Zero Motorcycles.

We re-plumb the motorcycles so they can’t spill any fluids. When the bike is stored on its side, the carb spills into a catch-can. After using the motorcycle a number of times, the catch can will be full. We originally provided a valve for draining the catch can. However, we’re adding a small fuel pump to transfer the fuel back into the main tank at the push of a button.

Hi David,

This concept is very intriguing…especially the ability just carry extra stuff like Skis! My sense about the motorycycle is that the pilot/motorcycle rider /Cirrus pilot may be a limited “animal”. I am a biker, but most of the Cirrus pilots I know are not. However, having a ski rack for our planes would be terrific if the process is not too intrusive to the airframe. I’d hazard a guess that many of us have wondered how we can carry skis in our planes. The price point would be a little too pricey for me, but I can’t speak for others. I think 5k-6K for just the pod would be more reasonable, but that’s just me. Keep up the research though, and feel free to contact me directly if you’d like more input. Cheers, Ron

Good question, don’t know the answer. Not only would their perhaps be a higher % of pilots that want it, on some (like the 182) there is a higher number of them flying too.

Now if we can just get my Harley in there [H] Now that will put me over Max GW - even in my G1.

Roger,

That’s great advice, I think I’ll take a survey to find the average useful load of each model. Would anyone like to volunteer their weights?

If we build the pods out of carbon, we can probably get the weight down to 35 pounds. I may be able to get an aluminum-framed bike down to 185 pounds that will still haul two adults down the highway. The total would be 220 pounds. Does this sound any better?

That probably would help. Every little bit helps when your weight challenged, IMO.

Joe,

There are a few machines that will fit inside the Cirrus (try the Di Blasi minibike) but they generally aren’t much use on the roadways.

A particularly determined friend removes his seats and puts down plywood to carry his 125cc Kawasaki. It takes a couple people to lift the motorcycle onto the wing and through the cabin door (it’s too big for the cargo door!) His wife must crawl through the baggage door to help lift the motorcycle from the back :wink:

When we started looking into larger roadworthy motorcycles (many states specify a minimum displacement of 150-200cc for highway use), we exceeded the weight (130 lb limit) and space of the cargo area, so we designed the perfect space fore it. The pod has proper ventilation, drainage, molded cradles and a winch system to load/unload the motorcycle without any heavy lifting. It keeps the weight near the CG so there is little impact on balance. We don’t have to worry about scuffing the leather or soiling the carpets. From a safety standpoint, we managed to keep the motorcycle out of the cabin… should it become a 2,000 lb (200 lb x 10g) projectile during an accident. It was also safer to store the fuel (fire hazard!) outside the cabin.

We also like the pod because we can haul other stuff (bicycles, skis, 2x4s) or remove it entirely.

Mario,

The stock motorcycle is around $4,000 and we don’t mark it up a penny.

Our fee comes from a custom super-moto conversion that allows it to store horizontally and fit inside the pod. We replace nearly every component on the motorcycle and deliver a custom aviation conversion for another $4,000 or so. As with any super-moto conversion, we lace smaller wheels and install new tires and tubes. We shorten the front suspension, install a new rear shock and change the sprockets and chain. The going rate for this type of work is $2,000 to $3,000. In addition, we install our own folding handlebars and mirrors, carbon fiber fenders, center stand, quick-release front axle, non-spill plumbing and flush LED signals.

People often think the price is high at first (it would be very high for a stock 250cc bike!) but they usually find it to be a good value when they learn more about the modifications. Perhaps I need to do a better job of marketing this as a “custom” motorcycle and do a better job of highlighting the major mods. Maybe I should even list the motorcycle and conversion as separate line items in our catalog.

Another interesting marketing problem… after spending so much effort to make the bike more compact, people often mistake it for a little 125cc. Here is a picture of the stock bike next to a modified one:

Ron,

I agree that motorcycle enthusiasts will be a niche. What kind of bike do you ride? The AOPA readership survey reported that 19.4% of pilots currently own a motorcycle so a lot of our customers are interested in hauling other stuff. I sometimes use mine to carry a bicycle, camping gear or model airplanes. It should also be great for skis, golf clubs, fishing poles, 2x4’s, etc. I’ve had some unique inquiries about hauling surveillance equipment, deer and wheel chairs.

When I carry the motorcycle, it is supported/secured by a set of fiberglass cradles. The cradles are screwed into the floor with thumb screws so they may be removed when hauling other cargo.

I’m planning to add more tie-down hardware and perhaps some movable dividers. Maybe a bolt-in ski rack? Auxillary fuel tank? We just added a quilted blanket to our catalog which goes over the luggage and protects the belly from scratches. Hopefully these accessories will make the pod more useful for hauling cargo. Please let me know if you have any ideas. The pod is a big new space and I’m always interested in finding new ways to utilize it.

Man

when I saw this, it screams 182 all over it. I might be interested in it to carry my skis and bicycle but I would balk at 10K

I can get my skis and biccyle in the plane as is. There is a folding minibike available for the cirrus and folding bikes work well

don

Thanks for the input everyone. I’m looking forward for to meeting some of you at the COPA Migration. I’ll have some products on display in the exhibit hall so please stop and say hello. Have a safe trip everyone. -David Shelton

David,

Good speaking with you today. I think your pod is spot on for use as an external carrier for oversized and excess baggage. Your price point on the motorcycle, will IMHO push it into a niche category. Nice to have, will fill special needs, but not appeal to the masses. However, I want one of the baggage pods like yesterday. Sign me up!