Just purchased a P210 a couple of weeks ago and I’m checking up on rates for other similarly capable planes.
I’ve got 1 million smooth and 200K hull for a premium of $4,100. This rate should come down with more time in type, I only have 10 hours now. What kind of rate would the TN22 fetch with a qualified pilot (1,600 Hrs. ATP SEL MEL). I realize the hull would be much higher.
So far, I’m loving the P… 195 KTAS 16.5 GPH in the high teens and low 20s running WOT/LOP.
You are pretty much paying 2% of hull value now.
I’d say that based on your times and ratings that you’d likely see less than 2% on a Cirrus initially, and upon your next renewal with say 100+ in type as low as 1.5%.
So on a $500k you’d pay $10k now and $75k next year.
Thanks for dropping by, the P210 is a machine that -by it’s specs- would be what many Cirrus pilots would want. IN plastic, with a chute of course!
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Just purchased a P210 a couple of weeks ago and I’m checking up on rates for other similarly capable planes.
I’ve got 1 million smooth and 200K hull for a premium of $4,100. This rate should come down with more time in type, I only have 10 hours now. What kind of rate would the TN22 fetch with a qualified pilot (1,600 Hrs. ATP SEL MEL). I realize the hull would be much higher.
So far, I’m loving the P… 195 KTAS 16.5 GPH in the high teens and low 20s running WOT/LOP.
I saw your post kind of late…my partner and I are former owners of a 1974 C210L, which we had upgraded extensively to “better than new.”
While the C210 was (and is) a very capable plane, in truth, there is no comparison between it and the Cirrus. Our SR-22 has double the climb rate, is 20knots faster on way less fuel flow, handles better and overall feels much safer. We have had our NA Cirrus up to 15K, where it was still doing 177KTAS on 11.8GPH and with climb to spare (AT GROSS WEIGHT!). Our C210 struggled to get above 11K in similar conditions.
Regarding insurance, our C210 was almost impossible to insure for what it was worth. All the companies refused to provide full hull coverage and limited the value to some “set number” in their eyes. One broker told me outright that the C210 is “the hardest high-performance single to insure…period.” The accident rate is pretty bad – not fatals, but the “total” rate. There are way too many gear-up landings (most are maintenance related) and lots of loss of control incidents on the runway. One of my ex-partners had one with an experienced ex-military CFI on board.
The P210 is different of course re performance… do you ever use O&N aircraft for maintenance? Ollie is THE C210 guru – he does the Silver Eagle turbine conversion… Now, that is a nice plane!
Enjoy your plane – but, try a Cirrus sometime; once you do and if you can live with a little less useful load (flexible, by the way by partial fueling), you won’t look back[:)]
Best regards,
I am interested in knowing your CHT’s with those settings in the P210?
robapens,
Thanks for the reply. It sounds like I’m about where I should be for now. Should see a reduction with more time in type. One thing that surprised me is that at least for now, there is no requirement for recurrent training. I intend to get it anyway.
This should make a great traveling machine. I took one of the middle seats out. Now have a very comfortable 5 seater with 7 hours range to dry tanks.
I am curious as to what year your 210 is and how it is equiped. Did you consider a cirrus. I am in the market and am considering one or the other.
“I am curious as to what year your 210 is and how it is equiped. Did you consider a cirrus. I am in the market and am considering one or the other.”
It’s a 78 P210N. I have a full Garmin stack…530/430, Aux. tanks, speed brakes and weather from a strike finder and yoke mounted 396.
Yes, I certainly considered Cirrus before making my present purchase. I started following Cirrus several years before they went into production and remember sitting in one of the prototype SR 20s at Sun n Fun 12-14 years ago. Cirrus is an excellent aircraft and there is not much I can say against it…Especially here on the COPA board.
Price… Not much more needs to be said on this point. A P210 is less then 1/2 the price of a TN22. Of course the TN22 is new and my 78 P210 is approaching 30 years old.
Load carrying… Both planes carry roughly 90 Gals. in the mains (92 in the TN22). With full mains My P210 will carry 895 #s the TN22 will carry 382 #s. I can fill my Aux. tanks with nearly 2 additional hours of fuel and still carry 715 #s. I have 2 additional seats also.
Performance… Edge is with the TN22 although not by much. I have a brand new engine in my bird and I’m still waiting for some of the CHTs to come down. For now I’m backing off RPMs and fuel flow to keep CHTs under 380 Deg. and I’m seeing 190 KTAS. Soon I expect to see 200 or a little more.
Ice… I live in the NE and icing is factor year round in the FLs. I’m adding FIKI TKS to my bird, can’t be done with Cirrus.
O2…I don’t need it. I have flown quite a bit with cannulas and masks…I don’t like it. With passengers I find it to be a real pain. The pressure vessel makes for a very quiet cabin also.
Comfort…Cirrus wins hands down. A very well designed cockpit.
Caps…I don’t have it…I’d like it, it’s a nice tool to have in the quiver. I mainly see the benefit in cases of pilot incapacitation or a mid air. I’ll avoid both.
I tried to add smileys especially to the last line. I did not mean to be flippant about the CAPS system. It is cerainly an excellent safety feature. I hope all reading this are never in a situation where it is required.
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Price… Not much more needs to be said on this point. A P210 is less then 1/2 the price of a TN22. Of course the TN22 is new and my 78 P210 is approaching 30 years old.
Maybe a little more needs to be said.
Can you compare the cost of a 6 year old SR22 to your 30 year old P210, rather than to a new SR22?
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Caps…I don’t have it…I’d like it, it’s a nice tool to have in the quiver. I mainly see the benefit in cases of pilot incapacitation or a mid air. I’ll avoid both…I tried to add smileys especially to the last line. I did not mean to be flippant about the CAPS system. It is cerainly an excellent safety feature. I hope all reading this are never in a situation where it is required.
The statistics are overwhelmingly on your side, but ya never know…[:)]
I’ll soon take delivery of my 260se/stol-Katmai, which (to me at least) offers the same magnitude of safety enhancements as Cirrus, although qualitatively different, by virtue of its low-speed safety and maneuverability and ability to get into very small places if the need arises.
Nonetheless–to the vocal dismay of a few over on the CPA forums–I decided to equip it with BRS. Mid-air, bird strike, structural failure, pilot incapacitation, engine failure in low IFR or in VFR over harsh terrain (not that I do either very much), it offers a last-resort way to save the day. Most importantly it makes my wife (aka Senior Management) a far more relaxed and enthusiastic right seat companion and for that it’s worth every last penny of the nearly $20K installed price!
The P210 is a fine, highly capable bird, and I hope you enjoy it a lot! Please consider joining COPA, I think you would find it an enjoyable, educational, and entertaining investment and we would be happy to welcome you to the group. I’m only a Cirrus renter and for me the annual COPA membership fee is one the best values in my own aviation world.
I think for your mission you have made a good choice. You need the pressurization and FIKI which the Cirrus does not have. You will need those items much more often than you need a parachute. The chute is nice to have but we did live in aviation almost 100 years without it.
I forgot to add that I have VGs which does give the 210 better low speed handling as well as a reduction in stall speed.
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You will need those items much more often than you need a parachute.
That kind of made me chuckle…CAPS pays for itself even if you only need it once.
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Maybe a little more needs to be said.
Can you compare the cost of a 6 year old SR22 to your 30 year old P210, rather than to a new SR22?
You could do that with a NA 210 and come up with some good comparisons. I’m talking Turbo and a more fair Comp. would be TN22-T210. There are a lot more T210s then Ps. and the Cirrus would show an even greater price disparity if I did that. The T is also a better load hauler then the P. Ts are certified to 28K the Ps only go to 23K.
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Enjoy your plane – but, try a Cirrus sometime; once you do and if you can live with a little less useful load (flexible, by the way by partial fueling), you won’t look back
Best regards,
With just the mains full I can carry 512#s more then the Cirrus. That’s more then just a little.
Even with my Aux. tanks full (2 Hrs. additional fuel) I can carry 333#s more then the Cirrus.
I watch #2 in the climb with #5 being hottest in cruise. Always keep the temps. below 380.