Flying has been fun recently (off topic with the exception that it is about flying)

Guest Discussion
1

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

2

Mark,

Your statement regarding “hope it lasts” completely offends me. The recent events have had a dramatic impact on general aviation. Who are you to take enjoyment out of this?

As the owner of two airplanes - including a new SR22 which I have not flown yet! - which are trapped under an extended Bravo veil, I want the restrictions lifted ASAP.

Chris

PS. If your message was a poor attempt at lay humor, find another message board.

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

3

Ahhh the difficulties of the English language.

To reduce speculation as to the meaning of my post, here is what I meant to say. Too bad if it is offensive to some… not my intent nor my concern.

  1. If you have the ability and means to fly (ratings, available aircraft, money etc.) it is a great time to get from point A to point B with the minimum amount of hassle. There were few restrictions and I only had a slight modification to my flight plan on a recent flight. Very pleasant environment to fly in with the controllers and the system not stressed at all. Not even in Orlando Class B.

  2. “Hope it lasts” - Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

With this in mind, if I had to choose to stand in a long line or stand in a short line to get something I will rationally choose to stand in the short line and not give a second thought to those that choose to stand in the long line.

Same with the current situation in the air. The airlines and many private pilots are choosing not to fly (or being forced not to fly which is wrong but a different topic) which lessens the strain on the system and makes it a pleasure for me to fly in. Yes… I hope it (the unstrained system, not the cause of the unstrained system)lasts. It is nice.

Now, to stretch this out of context to believe that I “delight” in someone elses misery is not correct. I am merely stating a fact that the system is nice to fly in when it is not strained and I hope it remains unstrained for a long time, provided it does not negatively affect me in other areas that are more important to me. (remember rational self interest)

I am assuming that those of you who are unable to fly (and who want to) are doing everything in your power and within your rational self interest to fly again. If I were in a similar situation you can bet I would.

Therefore, go figure out how to fly again (i.e. concern yourself with you) and don’t be so easily offended by me.

Mark

flame away… but let’s keep the arguements logically sound and rational.

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

4

Your statement regarding “hope it lasts” completely offends me. The recent events have had a dramatic impact on general aviation. Who are you to take enjoyment out of this?

I think your frustration is coloring your perceptions a bit. I read this as “I hope part 91 flying lasts” rather than “I hope you stay grounded.”

5

Chris, you should take some Prosac, or minimumly learn how to read and understand the English language. Your flame is entirely inappropriate.

Sorry your plane is trapped.

Mark,

Your statement regarding “hope it lasts” completely offends me. The recent events have had a dramatic impact on general aviation. Who are you to take enjoyment out of this?

As the owner of two airplanes - including a new SR22 which I have not flown yet! - which are trapped under an extended Bravo veil, I want the restrictions lifted ASAP.

Chris

PS. If your message was a poor attempt at lay humor, find another message board.

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

6

FWIW - I think Chris read it properly. I took it to me, IFR is great without you other losers.

BTW - I’m sure it is, though it won’t be so great soon when the close all Bravo Airports to GA forever…

(yes this last part is speculation and fear)

Dean

7

FWIW - I think Chris read it properly.

Moi aussi. With no animus toward the original poster, the whole point of the post was: there’s nobody else up there, this is great!

Eg:

“I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded… Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual ‘dodging of the Katanas’ with dazed students and stressed instructors…From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts”

Again without hostility I observe: those of us whose grounding is helping keep the airways clear view it from a different perspective.

8

Ahhh the difficulties of the English language.

Ahhh, the difficulties of the human brain.

A little humor would go a long way now.

Craig T. (the guy in the short line in front of you)

9

Ahhh the difficulties of the English language.

To reduce speculation as to the meaning of my post, here is what I meant to say. Too bad if it is offensive to some… not my intent nor my concern.

  1. If you have the ability and means to fly (ratings, available aircraft, money etc.) it is a great time to get from point A to point B with the minimum amount of hassle. There were few restrictions and I only had a slight modification to my flight plan on a recent flight. Very pleasant environment to fly in with the controllers and the system not stressed at all. Not even in Orlando Class B.
  1. “Hope it lasts” - Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

With this in mind, if I had to choose to stand in a long line or stand in a short line to get something I will rationally choose to stand in the short line and not give a second thought to those that choose to stand in the long line.

Same with the current situation in the air. The airlines and many private pilots are choosing not to fly (or being forced not to fly which is wrong but a different topic) which lessens the strain on the system and makes it a pleasure for me to fly in. Yes… I hope it (the unstrained system, not the cause of the unstrained system)lasts. It is nice.

Now, to stretch this out of context to believe that I “delight” in someone elses misery is not correct. I am merely stating a fact that the system is nice to fly in when it is not strained and I hope it remains unstrained for a long time, provided it does not negatively affect me in other areas that are more important to me. (remember rational self interest)

I am assuming that those of you who are unable to fly (and who want to) are doing everything in your power and within your rational self interest to fly again. If I were in a similar situation you can bet I would.

Therefore, go figure out how to fly again (i.e. concern yourself with you) and don’t be so easily offended by me.

Mark

flame away… but let’s keep the arguements logically sound and rational.

Ayn Rand lives on!>

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

10

Did I mention that I don’t like ISO 9000? :wink:

Ahhh the difficulties of the English language.

To reduce speculation as to the meaning of my post, here is what I meant to say. Too bad if it is offensive to some… not my intent nor my concern.

  1. If you have the ability and means to fly (ratings, available aircraft, money etc.) it is a great time to get from point A to point B with the minimum amount of hassle. There were few restrictions and I only had a slight modification to my flight plan on a recent flight. Very pleasant environment to fly in with the controllers and the system not stressed at all. Not even in Orlando Class B.
  1. “Hope it lasts” - Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

With this in mind, if I had to choose to stand in a long line or stand in a short line to get something I will rationally choose to stand in the short line and not give a second thought to those that choose to stand in the long line.

Same with the current situation in the air. The airlines and many private pilots are choosing not to fly (or being forced not to fly which is wrong but a different topic) which lessens the strain on the system and makes it a pleasure for me to fly in. Yes… I hope it (the unstrained system, not the cause of the unstrained system)lasts. It is nice.

Now, to stretch this out of context to believe that I “delight” in someone elses misery is not correct. I am merely stating a fact that the system is nice to fly in when it is not strained and I hope it remains unstrained for a long time, provided it does not negatively affect me in other areas that are more important to me. (remember rational self interest)

I am assuming that those of you who are unable to fly (and who want to) are doing everything in your power and within your rational self interest to fly again. If I were in a similar situation you can bet I would.

Therefore, go figure out how to fly again (i.e. concern yourself with you) and don’t be so easily offended by me.

Mark

flame away… but let’s keep the arguements logically sound and rational.

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

11

Ahhh the difficulties of the English language.

Well Said and explained, you now may have a great Cirrus day…

Woor

To reduce speculation as to the meaning of my post, here is what I meant to say. Too bad if it is offensive to some… not my intent nor my concern.

  1. If you have the ability and means to fly (ratings, available aircraft, money etc.) it is a great time to get from point A to point B with the minimum amount of hassle. There were few restrictions and I only had a slight modification to my flight plan on a recent flight. Very pleasant environment to fly in with the controllers and the system not stressed at all. Not even in Orlando Class B.
  1. “Hope it lasts” - Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

With this in mind, if I had to choose to stand in a long line or stand in a short line to get something I will rationally choose to stand in the short line and not give a second thought to those that choose to stand in the long line.

Same with the current situation in the air. The airlines and many private pilots are choosing not to fly (or being forced not to fly which is wrong but a different topic) which lessens the strain on the system and makes it a pleasure for me to fly in. Yes… I hope it (the unstrained system, not the cause of the unstrained system)lasts. It is nice.

Now, to stretch this out of context to believe that I “delight” in someone elses misery is not correct. I am merely stating a fact that the system is nice to fly in when it is not strained and I hope it remains unstrained for a long time, provided it does not negatively affect me in other areas that are more important to me. (remember rational self interest)

I am assuming that those of you who are unable to fly (and who want to) are doing everything in your power and within your rational self interest to fly again. If I were in a similar situation you can bet I would.

Therefore, go figure out how to fly again (i.e. concern yourself with you) and don’t be so easily offended by me.

Mark

flame away… but let’s keep the arguements logically sound and rational.

For those of you who have not flown recently, this system (IFR) is a pleasure to fly in. My wife and I just came back from a vacation to Orlando and I cannot in recent memory think of a time when the airways were less crowded.

At Kissimmee (within the “veil” of Orlando Int.) we were one of three airplanes at Ranger aviation. Before the lifting of restrictions no flight training was going on so I did not have to do the usual “dodging of the Katana’s” with dazed students and stressed instructors.

I even had a nice tail wind (that never happens) that let my big spam can (Cessna 210) get up to 171 knots groundspeed. From my perspective, its a great time to fly. Hope it lasts.

Mark

Ps - When I left Charleston Executive (JZI) on friday, security was lax…, when I came back today, all the gates were locked and attended. What’s up with that? Any ideas? The attendents were clueless about the increased security and just happy to have something to do.

12

Whatever happened to having fun flying? Why can’t we be friends?

13

How low is your lowrider? lol -j

14
  1. “Hope it lasts” - Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

Irrational, perhaps… But immoral? this would be a discussion for another place, but suffice to say you will find it very difficult to actually make that statement hold water, as the one of the founding principles for any justification of man as a moral being is his/her ability to at times choose for the good of others/many over the good of himself/herself. To follow your “belief” system out - you don’t ever choose at all. What is best for me – That is what I do. No thought beyond trying to figure out what is best for me. And you see where this leads you ultimately is to a place where you completely limit your own thinking, because you have decided that your model of the virtue of selfishness is a one-size fits all, hence you never consider otherwise. This is a warm cozy place of completely limited human existence. Be rational, sure. Be seflish often. But let’s not try to elevate that to a guiding principle of the self.

Dean

PS - Well I can’t fly, so I’ve gotta do something, why not answer his post :)!

15

And it really is a religious difference, in terms of the ultimate source of values and ethics.

  1. Those who know me understand that I believe in the virtue of selfishness. That is, we should all do what is in our own long term rational self interest. To do otherwise is to place your own self interest below that of another which is irrational and in my belief immoral.

Most people on this forum are probably familiar with the writings of Ayn Rand, whose ethical view (and trademark phrase “the virtue of selfishness”) is well summarized here. To see where the beliefs come from does clarify things – but the fact that one person’s beliefs are based on Randian ethics doesn’t necessarily persuade anyone else. (As an Ayn Rand “objectivist” would be the first to admit.) I could say to you, “It is written in the Koran, and therefore I believe…” which may explain what I’m doing but doesn’t mean you should behave any differently.

The phenomenon described in the original post is part of objective reality. Any change as dramatic as that of the last two weeks produces winners and losers. It IS a great time to fly IFR (if you’re allowed to fly).

It is a great time to be in the demolition business in the New York area. It is a bad time to be in the insurance business.

It is a great time to get a seat at an exclusive Manhattan restaurant or get bargain rates on hotel rooms almost anywhere. It is a bad time to work at or own a hotel.

It is a great time to be hiring people with airline experience, since some 100,000 of them have just been furloughed. It is a bad time to be one of those people.

It is a great time to be looking for a job as a New York City fireman. No kidding – a caller from Harlem, on one radio show I was on, said that his friends had been making that point. The NYFD had historically been more Italian and Irish than black, compared to other city departments. The caller thought this would change.

It is a great time to be in the bond-arbitrage business, since one of the previously dominant firms has been badly hurt. It is a bad time to be an employee of Cantor-Fitzgerald. And so on.

These are objective realities, but in recognizing them people on the “winner” side don’t usually say “hope this lasts” because they’re aware of the overall disaster of which these opportunities are part. It is a quasi-religious question whether people should pay any attention to these misfortunes of others (which the person with the new opportunities obviously did not cause). Some belief systems say yes; some say no. This is in no sense a “flame” back at the original poster; just trying to say that these are the deepest of disagreements, which we won’t resolve here.

16

Irrational, perhaps… But immoral? this would be a discussion for another place, but suffice to say you will find it very difficult to actually make that statement hold water, as the one of the founding principles for any justification of man as a moral being is his/her ability to at times choose for the good of others/many over the good of himself/herself.

Under what specific circumstance is it better to place the interest of another human being(s) above your own?

(spouse, children and close family excluded because in elevating their interest above your own one can argue that you are still acting in you own rational self-interest)

17

Under what specific circumstance is it better to place the interest of another human being(s) above your own?

“Better” being the key word. Certainly, giving one’s life in service for one’s country is not better for that individual, it is better for the whole.

Moreover, it is not in one’s ration self-interest to give a kidney to a stranger, nor donate their wages to relief funds for people they do not know.

Certainly, the citizens who stood idly by as the first of the (pick your time period: Jews, Gypsies, Kurd, ethnic albainians…ad infinitum) were led away did so because to interfere would have cost them their lives, only in the end they wound up not only dead themselves but also by a lack of sacrifice allowed murderers to rise to untold levels of power. And likewise, the hollywood-types who told Macarthy to stick it ended up with their lives ruined as a price for their principles.

In fact, I would argue it is not really in one’s rational self-interest to sacrifice for a wife. You can always replace one, and by doing so increase you chances of your gene pool surviving. Marriage, which 1000yrs ago was very rational, is in fact entirely irrational now.

Now, if one is going to expand the term better to include anything that’s good for mankind is good for me, and then shrink it in the next arguement, then they could naturally argue everything is selfish, or interestingly enough could argue everything is self-less.

I guess it all comes down to what you mean by better for you. Personally, I think a world where there are as few restrictions on GA is possible is BETTER than what we have now. Even if it means I have to endure a little more traffic. I gain personal satisfaction from the idea that which I love is being enjoyed by as many as possible, instead of by as few, even if they are stangers.

18

Irrational, perhaps… But immoral? this would be a discussion for another place, but suffice to say you will find it very difficult to actually make that statement hold water, as the one of the founding principles for any justification of man as a moral being is his/her ability to at times choose for the good of others/many over the good of himself/herself.

Under what specific circumstance is it better to place the interest of another human being(s) above your own?

Try 1 Peter 4:8

myers

(spouse, children and close family excluded because in elevating their interest above your own one can argue that you are still acting in you own rational self-interest)

19

  1. I’m glad more people of Mark’s ilk weren’t on board the Pittsburg flight (Sept.11th)or we would all be looking at at hole in the ground where the Capital Building currently sits.

  2. When your part of a team whose lives depends on you. How would anyone like being in a foxhole next to a proudly selfish guy like Mike? (US Army 24th Infantry 1968)

Under what specific circumstance is it better to place the interest of another human being(s) above your own?

20

I do it everytime I get on a firetruck or fly an Angel Flight mission or a long list of other items.

I won’t give a second thought to those that stand in the “short line.”

Derek Rowan

Fire Chief

Greater Springfield Volunteer Fire Department

and Owner SR20A

Under what specific circumstance is it better to place the interest of another human being(s) above your own?