If I have time in the Falcon 900EX level D sim, which is loggable, and logged in my book, does that count for complex time? I know that seems obvious considering the quote above, but would it count towards my required 10 hours? What about my multi time, mostly in a Seneca?
Jeff,
FAR 61.129(a)(3)(ii) states:
(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered…
This training could be done in a complex AMEL airplane since the rule is silent with respect to class of airplane – it just says “airplane.” And the training could be done in a fixed-gear airplane that is turbine-powered, such as a CE-208 (Caravan). Or it could be done in a turbojet airplane (which by definition is not a complex airplane, since it has no propeller).
A side note: A fixed-gear turbine-powered airplane is okay for the TRAINING, but not for the practical test. The PTS requires retractable landing gear and flaps for turbine-powered airplanes used on the test. As a result, you could train in a Caravan or a Citation, but you could not use the Caravan on the practical test.
As far as the training in a simulator, that’s a bit complicated because the 10 hours of instrument training required can be in a sim/FTD. This means that the instrument training under FAR 61.129(a)(2)(i) could occur in a sim/FTD. But if you are asking whether the complex airplane training under 6.129(a)(2)(ii) can be in a sim/FTD, my answer is no. The rule says 10 hours of training in an airplane, with no provisions for using sim/FTD in lieu of the airplane. AFS-840 may well have some policy that allows use of sim/FTD time for this…you will have to check with them.
Right, I thought so too, and you were there when I got that time[;)], but when i saw that passage posted by Scott mention controllable prop or turbine, I was hoping for clarification.
Thanks for the great thread, and Scott and Clif, thanks for the info!
I’m planning to acquire my commercial license, but will probably talk to a local instructor and the examiner and make sure I’ve got it all straight! I’ve got about 400 hours and IFR, and lots of dual, cross country, IFR etc time, but need to work out what will apply toward the prerequisites.
Anyone have any thoughts on a choice for a complex plane to train in for that required time? I need about five more hours at least.
Any feedback on splitting the checkride into the portions which require the complex aircraft, and the portions which do not? Where’s that line? Is it worth doing, or should I try to muddle through my commercial SEL instrument without my trusty 430 and so on?
Any feedback on splitting the checkride into the portions which require the complex aircraft, and the portions which do not?
Dane,
I don’t know the rules, but I can tell you my experience. I practiced for, and took the majority of my Comm. checkride in, a C172 - it was cheaper and simpler that way. After 90% of the checkride was complete, we parked the 172, then did a few turns around the pattern in a C182RG, to demonstrate that I knew what cowl flaps were for, what to do with the prop control, when to raise and lower the gear, and how to pump the gear down manually. That satisfied my D.E.
I think this is a good idea. Many of you guys are much more “systems-savvy” than I am, but all the same, it is still easier to just focus all your mental resources and physical skills on one aircraft for the prep and checkride. [:)]
Bill,
I think this is a good idea. Many of you guys are much more “systems-savvy” than I am, but all the same, it is still easier to just focus all your mental resources and physical skills on one aircraft for the prep and checkride.
I would think that one would get ‘more out of the comm rating’ by doing as much as possible in the plane that you fly 100% of the time(or close to it), don’t you think?
It is more interesting if you forget to put that little gear lever down before landing or forget to push the blue knob all the way in on an aborted landing!
Whether you use one or two airplanes, the key is to be completely comfortable. If you did most of your commercial training in a Cirrus, for example, you don’t want your performance in an Arrow to look like it was an afterthought in training. Additionally, as mentioned by others above, examiners have the option to test you on any PTS maneuvers in both aircraft, and some examiners will put you through the ringer on both aircraft’s systems which may not be a problem for you but it will still make an already hard check-ride harder.
I would think that one would get ‘more out of the comm rating’ by doing as much as possible in the plane that you fly 100% of the time(or close to it), don’t you think?
Jerry
Having just done all this in Cessna’s and not having flown a 172 or 172RG in several years, I found it much easier to do the PTS in the Cessna’s. And the FE was fully familiar with the planes. Less stuff to miss on the check list when you are a bit nervous (I did forget to turn on the transponder one time, tho[:$]). You will still, as mentioned, need to do the complex in an Arrow or RG of some sort. But that was just a few laps and emergency gear extension procedures. My 1.7eur.
Ted, I think I’ll follow this route - do all of my prequisites and stuff with various instructors, get familiar with something complex and rentable here, then do a bunch of days of intensive and do the check ride. =)