Yaw damper question

i have a 2009 sr22TN with perspective and the yaw damper doesn’t automatically come on or go off like it supposed to. does anyone know how to fix this???

Hello Tye-

What SW version are you running?

Automatic yaw damper disconnect below 200 ft AGL was added with software v0764.36 in mid 2019 (SB2X-42-17).

Auto yaw damper engagement on takeoff above 200 ft AGL is a feature of the Perspective + avionics on 2017 and later G6 models, to the best of my knowledge it is not available on legacy Perspective airframes, but hopefully @EdWatters or @cfichuck can confirm if this is accurate or not.

Hi Hans,

None of the procedures for my plane mention anything about manually engaging/disengaging the yaw damper so it make me assume it’s automatic. also, my SW is up to date.

Correct Hans, no auto engagement or disengagement on Perspective, that’s a Perspective+ feature.

On the newer Perspective software the yaw damper will disengage when the AP is shut off on the GFC 700 when switching to FD so you can’t inadvertently land with the yaw damper engaged.
That of course came about because of landing incident a few years ago.

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Hi Ed,

thanks for the information but i just want to clarify something. is it normal for my plane to still have the yaw damper engaged when i land if i don’t manually turn it off?

Correct Tye, Always make it a practice to click off the autopilot with the thumb switch once you are committed to landing, i usually do that soon after the 500 agl callout even though i know everything is disengaged.

The difference between the keypad and thumb switch is that the switch turns BOTH off and the button on the panel turns ONLY the AP off and not YD

Tye-

Here is a link to the Perspective Pilot’s Guide for System Software Version 0764.36 or later:

Yaw damper operation is addressed on pages 525 & 526, I hope this helps clear up any confusion you may have.

Tye:
There is no “Automatic disconnect” or engagement of the AP in a pre G6 airplane. You have a dedicated “YD” butoon. When you turn the AP button on, the YD engages with the turning on of the AP. When you turn the AP off, if you do it with the red yoke disconnect button, all AP functions including YD go off as well. If you turn off the AP simply by hitting the AP button, all flight director functions including the YD stay on.

So:
If you want the YD on, turn on the AP.
If you want the YD off, turn off the AP via the red button.
So

Hi Brian,

got it. thanks!

Tye:
If your YD is not disconnecting when you turn off the AP, the most likely cause is the way you are turning off the AP. So tell us how you have been doing that.

Brian, Cirrus introduced auto disconnect at 200 AGL on 0764.36. Auto engagement only exists on the G6 though.

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Marlon:
The AP should not be on below minimums. The lowest minimums are 200 fett AGL. When the AP comes off the YD comes off. The differnce in the G6 is that there is no YD button. It is built into the software to come on and off regardless of AP engagement. In the G5 or earlier, you can only have the YD on without the full AP turned on by manually pushing the YD button. At 200 AGL on landing the entire AP needs to come off and that includes the YD.

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I believe you are correct. There are 3 ways to disconnect. Push the red button with your thumb, press the AP button on the GFC 700, or the YD automatically shuts off if individually engaged flying raw data.
A lot of us as instructors moved on to P+ avionics after years of Perspective and this was back channeled after the landing accident hence I apologize for a bit of fogginess on our part.
It’s harder to go backwards from P+ to P then to a GNS 430😉

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AP or not, 0764.36 will turn off the YD at 200’ if you have only the YD engaged while you are hand-flying.

That’s quite useful when you are flying an approach using FD/YD only, but no servos.

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Sounds like it’s time for a new airplane. :joy:

All jokes aside, Hans and Marlon are correct.

“AP or not, 0764.36 and greater (like .37 or .38) will turn off the YD at 200’ AGL, if you have the YD engaged while you are hand-flying.“
This is just a safety catch to avoid another YD landing mishap. Like Brian and Ed said, if you disconnect with the red button on the yoke, it will remove AP, YD and FD. Avoid disconnecting with the AP button on the GFC 700. It’ll allow the YD and FD to persist.

That covers the disconnect part.

The GFC 700 will automatically turn on the YD if you press either AP or YD. You can’t legally turn it on until above 400’ AGL. I don’t think it should ever be connected until above CAPS altitude, as you wouldn’t want to struggle with it if the engine fails below CAPS altitude. I teach 1000’ AGL prior to engaging the AP, personally.

All of this assumes that the ESP is turned on. Instructors like to turn the ESP functions off for maneuvers training, for good reason. It automatically resets itself after a power cycle, so I doubt that’s your issue.

LVL will not turn on the YD, but obviously is engaging the Autopilot.

Note that not a single YD does a perfect job above 5° of pitch or any time that you’re suddenly applying power. Don’t let that right leg get lazy. Regardless of generation, it will not engage during a go-around when you need it most.

If it doesn’t behave like I described, then bring it in to your friendly Cirrus Avionics technician.

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Marlon:
I guess this is where we have a philosophical difference. I simply do not like to fly by hand with the YD on. We spemt years complaining about the aileron/rudder interconnect in the G1/G2 planes because independent operation of those controls is very often desired.

When the AP is on, the YD is superior because an AP cannot truly make a coordinatde turn without a YD. An airframe prone to “fishtailing” needs a YD and many a V tailed Bonanza driver would attest to that. It is also why the SF 50 had the YD automatgically added to its flight control sytem. Natuarlly, Cirrus added that feature to the G6 airplanes to mimic the SF 50.

Having automatic YD on is annoying and gets in the way of training. A private pilot training in a G6 plane with a YD never learns the value of “using your feet” unless instructors are constantly turning it off. It just grooms bad habits or no habits at all. Landings are even a bigger issue. Virtually no landing involves zero crosswind. To make precise landings in even a small crosswind a pilot needs independent control of rudder and aileron. I want that control far above 200 feet on a landing. I simply do not see an advantage to making a visula landing with the FD and YD on. The FD is useful under IFR conditions when hand flying but not in visual conditions. Ergo, it should already be off well above 200 feet if using it at all.

In summary, I see no helpful use of an “Auto” YD. That is why I suggested above that no automatic function should be your SOP. A pilot should actively choose to turn on and off the YD at will. Having an auto disconnect at 200 to me is like havinfg an automatuc splrinkler system after the fire is out. And when on AP, that AP is coming off anyway at 200 feet or higher on an IFR approach. Disconnecting the AP in a G5 or earlier turns off the YD. That should be the only "auto disconnect " needed.

We can have another discussion about the Perpective + which has no YD button. But in the Perspective planes that do have an YD button; it is there for a good reason!! For my SOP, there is no auto YD feature that is usefull. That new software is trying to duplicate the P + and I simply disagree with it’s usefulness.

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AMEN!! I’ve always been very vocal against full automatic YD. I also think it’s completely absurd what Cirrus made on the G6. My G6 doesn’t have YD, so I don’t have that problem. I still know well how to use my feet and I absolutely don’t want to lose that proficiency.

My comment as being “useful” was actually misstated. By “useful” I meant Cirrus and Garmin implemented that after a COPA member here landed with YD on by accident and had a total loss, because he lost control of the airplane on the ground. Why a pilot should or shouldn’t hand-fly with the YD on is orthogonal. Landing with YD on an absolute no no, so I’m glad they did that. It eliminates that class of problems completely.

The nuance is how people end up there (hand-fly + YD) in the first place. Cirrus, different from all other manufacturers that I know, decided that the red button on the stick turns off AP/FD/YD together. I think this is a bad design. I hand-fly my approaches whenever the ceiling and visibility aren’t too low and I like to have the FD on. If I’m previously using the AP, I have to use the AP button to disconnect the servos and remain with the FD, as I always do. On a G5 with YD, that will leave the YD on as well. That’s exactly what caught our fellow COPA pilot.

I think we agree. But on the G5 with th YD left on while hand flying, a mere push of the red button will turn off all remaining FD functions including the YD. This is why in my original comment above I said there is no need for an “automatic” YD disconnect. When hand flying a final approach your hand is already on the yoke. Not recognizing the YD is on at 500 feet AGL is pretty “absent minded”. You can see it on the “scoreboard” and feel it with your feet. I agree the current philosophy of “auto on” and off is not smart.

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I agree. I use the YD from time to time, but I never want YD on to be the default.

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THIS drives me nuts.

I really do NOT like having to look down at minimums/AP disconnect altitude and hit the AP button so I can keep the FD bars.

Every other airplane I’ve flown simply disconnects the AP and leaves the FD bars working when you hit the yoke AP disconnect button.

WTF was Cirrus thinking??

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