When to use the chute

Guest Discussion
1

I don’t have a cirrus (or manual) yet, so I am curious what Cirrus has to say about what situations warrant using the chute (or do they say?).

Being in FL and planning to do a lot of Bahamas trips, I can see where I would rather use a chute if the engine quit over open water than attempt to ditch in 4-6 ft seas and catch a wingtip or wheel and end upside down or looking for my nose on the dashboard. I wonder what the odds are of the plane sinking in either scenario?

Certainly, loss of control should be a good reason for deployment.

What about a night-time engine out scenario? I think that if I didn’t have a place to land such as a highway (without power lines) that I could identify, I would have to consider the chute. Day-time over land engine out over ugly terrain sounds like time to say “chicken” too.

Any other thoughts on this, anyone? I hope I am not beating a dead horse. Haven’t been following the forum long.

2

I don’t have a cirrus (or manual) yet, so I am curious what Cirrus has to say about what situations warrant using the chute (or do they say?).

Being in FL and planning to do a lot of Bahamas trips, I can see where I would rather use a chute if the engine quit over open water than attempt to ditch in 4-6 ft seas and catch a wingtip or wheel and end upside down or looking for my nose on the dashboard. I wonder what the odds are of the plane sinking in either scenario?

Certainly, loss of control should be a good reason for deployment.

What about a night-time engine out scenario? I think that if I didn’t have a place to land such as a highway (without power lines) that I could identify, I would have to consider the chute. Day-time over land engine out over ugly terrain sounds like time to say “chicken” too.

Any other thoughts on this, anyone? I hope I am not beating a dead horse. Haven’t been following the forum long.

Larry:

I think all of the circumstances you describe are appropriate for use of the chute. I am still waiting for the POH on the SR22, but as far as I know, there are no specific instructions as to the circumstances for use of the chute as distinguished from instructions as to how to deploy the chute.

Use of the chute will “substantially damage” the aircraft on landing. I recall that at the 2000 A.O.P.A. convention Tom Bergeron quipped that you could get an interview on “Good Morning America” if you were the first to pull the chute. The price seems a little too high for fifteen minutes of fame.

As to ditching at sea, the odds are certain that the aircraft is going to sink. The only question is how it is going to contact the water. I agree that a controlled vertical descent on a chute is preferable to trying to “land” the aircraft in rough (or even smooth) seas. Ditching at sea, I can’t see any reason not to use the chute. The aircraft will sink anyway, so there is no reason not to use it.

Hopefully, none of the circumstances you describe will ever take place. Realistically however, sooner or later someone will find himself or herself in one of the circumstances you describe and will be talking about it, hopefully not even from a hospital bed.

If you look through the earlier posts, you will find a thread regarding the chute. That discussion was mostly on the issue of “why put a chute in the aircraft” rather than “what are the circumstances for the use of the chute”.

If someone has some more specific information from the SR20 POH, I would certainly be interested in what the POH says about circumstances as well as the method of deploying the chute.

3

I don’t have a cirrus (or manual) yet, so I am curious what Cirrus has to say about what situations warrant using the chute (or do they say?).

The SR20 POH, section 9, "Safety Information,"lists the following “possible scenarios in which the activiation of the CAPS might be appropriate. This list in not intended to be exclusive, but merely illustrative…”

Mid-air collision

Structural failure

Loss of control

Landing required in Terrain not permitting a safe landing - such as extremely rough or mountainous terrain, over water out of gliding distance to land, over widespread ground fog or at night (these are out of POH)

Pilot incapacitation

As I understamd it, CAPS is deployed only when it could be the only means of saving the occupants. It is expected to result in destruction of the airframe, according to POH.

4

Being in FL and planning to do a lot of Bahamas trips, I can see where I would rather use a chute if the engine quit over open water than attempt to ditch in 4-6 ft seas and catch a wingtip or wheel and end upside down or looking for my nose on the dashboard. I wonder what the odds are of the plane sinking in either scenario?

Pull the cord! See the post by the bright, young lady “Janice #235” who accurately quotes scripture from the POH. I might add you should bring along an inflatable raft, an EPIRB and life jackets and hope that you have enough time and stamina to exit the sinking aircraft with all that junk before you drown. Aviation Consumer magazine had a recent review of inflatable life rafts that is worth reading, as well as an article on a training facility for ditching pilots.
aircraft before you

5

I don’t have a cirrus (or manual) yet, so I am curious what Cirrus has to say about what situations warrant using the chute (or do they say?).

Being in FL and planning to do a lot of Bahamas trips, I can see where I would rather use a chute if the engine quit over open water than attempt to ditch in 4-6 ft seas and catch a wingtip or wheel and end upside down or looking for my nose on the dashboard. I wonder what the odds are of the plane sinking in either scenario?

Certainly, loss of control should be a good reason for deployment.

What about a night-time engine out scenario? I think that if I didn’t have a place to land such as a highway (without power lines) that I could identify, I would have to consider the chute. Day-time over land engine out over ugly terrain sounds like time to say “chicken” too.

Any other thoughts on this, anyone? I hope I am not beating a dead horse. Haven’t been following the forum long.

Larry:

I think all of the circumstances you describe are appropriate for use of the chute. I am still waiting for the POH on the SR22, but as far as I know, there are no specific instructions as to the circumstances for use of the chute as distinguished from instructions as to how to deploy the chute.

Use of the chute will “substantially damage” the aircraft on landing. I recall that at the 2000 A.O.P.A. convention Tom Bergeron quipped that you could get an interview on “Good Morning America” if you were the first to pull the chute. The price seems a little too high for fifteen minutes of fame.

As to ditching at sea, the odds are certain that the aircraft is going to sink. The only question is how it is going to contact the water. I agree that a controlled vertical descent on a chute is preferable to trying to “land” the aircraft in rough (or even smooth) seas. Ditching at sea, I can’t see any reason not to use the chute. The aircraft will sink anyway, so there is no reason not to use it.

Hopefully, none of the circumstances you describe will ever take place. Realistically however, sooner or later someone will find himself or herself in one of the circumstances you describe and will be talking about it, hopefully not even from a hospital bed.

If you look through the earlier posts, you will find a thread regarding the chute. That discussion was mostly on the issue of “why put a chute in the aircraft” rather than “what are the circumstances for the use of the chute”.

If someone has some more specific information from the SR20 POH, I would certainly be interested in what the POH says about circumstances as well as the method of deploying the chute.

Good People:

If ditching it at sea via the chute, can it be expected that the airframe will not break upon impact? If the answer is no, then it would seem that the aircraft will float for a time. But to try and open the doors may be self defeating if the water level is over the bottom edge of the door (the onrush of water may well be overwhelming). Thus, is there a preferred way to chop (doesn’t the SR come with a hatchet?) oneself out of the aircraft through the roof or perhaps the rear window?

But if the airframe fails to survive the impact of a parachute landing, where does that leave the occupants?

Wadda ya think?

Pete

6

Another use of the chute, which I think came from the manufacturer, is to pull it if you are going off the end of the runway at high speed. I would also use it if I was about to fly into the side of a building, no matter what the altitude. Any thing that slows you down may save your life. That is why Cessna 172’s have such a good fatality record. They are not going very fast when they hit. Remember, KE=1/2 MassX Velocity(squared).

I don’t have a cirrus (or manual) yet, so I am curious what Cirrus has to say about what situations warrant using the chute (or do they say?).

7

Pete:

I was told by one of the Cirrus sales reps shortly after they did their drop tests that the only visible damage to the test plane was one wheel popped off and that the G forces measured in the seat would be equivalant to what might result in a back strain and further that the terminal velocity of the plane would be around 24 mph if I remember correctly.

This doesn’t sound to me like something that would break a hull in half, especially one that is designed to sustain such an impact like no other plane before it.

With regard to the door being jammed due to the water pressure; I think that could be overcome by opening the doors on the way down (might as well make that last view a good one;-).

Larry

Good People:

If ditching it at sea via the chute, can it be expected that the airframe will not break upon impact? If the answer is no, then it would seem that the aircraft will float for a time. But to try and open the doors may be self defeating if the water level is over the bottom edge of the door (the onrush of water may well be overwhelming). Thus, is there a preferred way to chop (doesn’t the SR come with a hatchet?) oneself out of the aircraft through the roof or perhaps the rear window?

But if the airframe fails to survive the impact of a parachute landing, where does that leave the occupants?

Wadda ya think?

Pete

8

If ditching it at sea via the chute, can it be expected that the airframe will not break upon impact?
I would be most surprised if the airframe was damaged enough to break apart on impact with the water under the chute.
But to try and open the doors may be self defeating if the water level is over the bottom edge of the door
Over water or land, I would open the doors before impact. Egress should be easy - low wing plane, wide door openings on both sides. And all aboard will be wearing lifejackets, won’t they?
Thus, is there a preferred way to chop (doesn’t the SR come with a hatchet?)
A hammer is provided to break the windows (the front windows are tbe biggest).
Regarding the chute draping over the plane - you would have to be really unlucky to ditch over water with no wind at all.

9

It seems to me the first concern after ditching at sea would be how to get out from under the chute. Would it not most probably settle on top of the plane?

Jack

I was told by one of the Cirrus sales reps shortly after they did their drop tests that the only visible damage to the test plane was one wheel popped off and that the G forces measured in the seat would be equivalant to what might result in a back strain and further that the terminal velocity of the plane would be around 24 mph if I remember correctly.

This doesn’t sound to me like something that would break a hull in half, especially one that is designed to sustain such an impact like no other plane before it.

With regard to the door being jammed due to the water pressure; I think that could be overcome by opening the doors on the way down (might as well make that last view a good one;-).

Larry

Good People:

If ditching it at sea via the chute, can it be expected that the airframe will not break upon impact? If the answer is no, then it would seem that the aircraft will float for a time. But to try and open the doors may be self defeating if the water level is over the bottom edge of the door (the onrush of water may well be overwhelming). Thus, is there a preferred way to chop (doesn’t the SR come with a hatchet?) oneself out of the aircraft through the roof or perhaps the rear window?

But if the airframe fails to survive the impact of a parachute landing, where does that leave the occupants?

Wadda ya think?

Pete

10

If you open the doors on the way down there is the added advantage that you can take a picture up of the deployed chute. They would really like that on the Today Show.

With regard to the door being jammed due to the water pressure; I think that could be overcome by opening the doors on the way down (might as well make that last view a good one;-).

Larry

11

It seems to me the first concern after ditching at sea would be how to get out from under the chute. Would it not most probably settle on top of the plane?

If there is any wind at all, it should settle down wind of the plane.

mdz

12

It seems to me the first concern after ditching at sea would be how to get out from under the chute. Would it not most probably settle on top of the plane?

If there is any wind at all, it should settle down wind of the plane.

mdz

A good survival knife attached to you via a string should be a good item to have just in case you need to cut the chute or to filet your next meal… Have a great Cirrus day.

Woor

13

In regards to the amount of damage the plane suffers after a “chute landing,” imagine this:

“For sale – Cirrus. Chute used once.”

My guess is not too many people would want to fly in a Cirrus that sacrificed itself for its passengers, no matter how many times mechanics assured you it was fine.

Though inevitably, time will tell.

Dean

14

In regards to the amount of damage the plane suffers after a “chute landing,” imagine this:

“For sale – Cirrus. Chute used once.”

My guess is not too many people would want to fly in a Cirrus that sacrificed itself for its passengers, no matter how many times mechanics assured you it was fine.

Though inevitably, time will tell.

Dean

Being from a family that likes fishing in Minnesota, winter fishing demands different kind of tactics. This refers to the door situation, during a parachute deployment over water. Driving a vehicle on the ice is risky, even in MN. My father would ALWAYS roll the windows down when we drove to the fish house. Finally, after freezing time after time upon our final fishing location, I asked “Why, dad?”

The pressure on the doors with the windows closed would be way too high. Open the windows, and the car will fill up quicker, and even the pressure, so the doors can be opened. Imagine the pressure needed on a sinking airplane with doors such as these. I would say, open 'em up, and take a deep breath.

15

In regards to the amount of damage the plane suffers after a “chute landing,” imagine this:

“For sale – Cirrus. Chute used once.”

My guess is not too many people would want to fly in a Cirrus that sacrificed itself for its passengers, no matter how many times mechanics assured you it was fine.

Though inevitably, time will tell.

Dean

No, no, it would be like the line in GARP. The plane would be pre-disastered. It couldn’t happen twice.

All kidding aside, I think the first plane to use the chute will head back to the factory for testing and evaluation. At least if I were Cirus I would want to know everything about how the plane handled a real world situation.

16

If you would really like to dwell on death, read Doug Ritter’s website at http://www.equipped.com The title of his website is “Equipped to Survive” and he talks about escape in water, ELTs, life vests, inflatable life boats, and more. He has articles on how to land on water (but not walk) and numerous other ways to attempt to escape the grim reaper. A couple of articles are really good for those of you who doubt the value of ELTs – he doesn’t prove that they saved anyone, just some factual accounts that showed when they don’t work (which is common with the 121.5 MHz units), you could very well meet your maker. 406 MHz beacons anyone?

17

If you open the doors on the way down there is the added advantage that you can take a picture up of the deployed chute. They would really like that on the Today Show.

I’ll keep my video camera ready for my 15 min. of fame :>)

With regard to the door being jammed due to the water pressure; I think that could be overcome by opening the doors on the way down (might as well make that last view a good one;-).

Larry