VFR UPDATE from AOPA

Guest Discussion
1

FAA to issue notam permitting some VFR operations today
9/19/01 1:30:03 PM, ET — AOPA has learned that FAA will issue a notam today between 4 and 6 p.m. ET that will permit the resumption of some VFR operations. AOPA President Phil Boyer has talked at length with FAA Administrator Jane Garvey and the head of FAA’s Air Traffic Services. They had just come from a meeting with Department of Defense and national security officials.

“We made some progress towards more VFR flight,” Garvey told Boyer. But she said that VFR privileges would not be restored all at once. “As Secretary of Transportation Mineta has already said, there will be a series of phase-ins, with operations restored incrementally.”

Garvey said that FAA will continue daily meetings with national security officials, and that the agency will continue work to free up more types of VFR operations.

“If you don’t like what you hear today, just stay tuned,” said Boyer. “More privileges will be restored as time goes on. And AOPA will be there to make sure that the needs of all pilots are addressed, if not today, then tomorrow.”

The notam will not be issued until this afternoon in order to give FAA time to brief all Flight Service Stations on exactly what flight operations will be permitted. AOPA had criticized FAA for not keeping FSS personnel completely informed. FAA is now sending twice-daily faxes to all FSSs so the briefers can provide accurate information, not rumors, to pilots.

AOPA has installed its Vice President of Air Traffic Services, Melissa Bailey, at FAA headquarters to ensure that FAA understands the operational needs of general aviation pilots and that the notams are clear and consider all possible circumstances.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

AOPA will update this web site with the specifics of the VFR notam as soon as it is released.

2

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

Fascinating, isn’t it. They want to protect the world from the perils of VFR. Give me a break - this is nothing more than any unecessary loss of freedom which serves no purpose except to create some illusion in some politican’s head. My friend and I filed IFR over the internet and flew right down LA basin. We never spoke to anyone in person about anything. So someone tell me how VFR is any worse than that.

3

FREE AT LAST !!!

FREE AT LAST !!!

See AOPA Web Site latest posting.

FAA to issue notam permitting some VFR operations today
9/19/01 1:30:03 PM, ET — AOPA has learned that FAA will issue a notam today between 4 and 6 p.m. ET that will permit the resumption of some VFR operations. AOPA President Phil Boyer has talked at length with FAA Administrator Jane Garvey and the head of FAA’s Air Traffic Services. They had just come from a meeting with Department of Defense and national security officials.

“We made some progress towards more VFR flight,” Garvey told Boyer. But she said that VFR privileges would not be restored all at once. “As Secretary of Transportation Mineta has already said, there will be a series of phase-ins, with operations restored incrementally.”

Garvey said that FAA will continue daily meetings with national security officials, and that the agency will continue work to free up more types of VFR operations.

“If you don’t like what you hear today, just stay tuned,” said Boyer. “More privileges will be restored as time goes on. And AOPA will be there to make sure that the needs of all pilots are addressed, if not today, then tomorrow.”

The notam will not be issued until this afternoon in order to give FAA time to brief all Flight Service Stations on exactly what flight operations will be permitted. AOPA had criticized FAA for not keeping FSS personnel completely informed. FAA is now sending twice-daily faxes to all FSSs so the briefers can provide accurate information, not rumors, to pilots.

AOPA has installed its Vice President of Air Traffic Services, Melissa Bailey, at FAA headquarters to ensure that FAA understands the operational needs of general aviation pilots and that the notams are clear and consider all possible circumstances.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

AOPA will update this web site with the specifics of the VFR notam as soon as it is released.

4

We all recognize the role of symbolism in these “security” efforts. Eg, you tell me how much good the ban on curbside check-in is going to do against terrorists like the current crop. All it’s guaranteed to do is impoverish a bunch of former skycaps. Still, it’s a “gesture.”

Making a gesture, rather than applying logical standards of risk assessment, is the only way I can explain the ongoing GA restrictions. My personal stake: N711DZ is one of a couple thousand GA airplanes still immobilized at the two dozen no-fly-zone airports near DCA and JFK. (Gaithersburg has 250; Teterboro has 200+; so does Leesburg; etc.) Stranded airliners were “evacuated” from National with a southbound-only (away from downtown Washington) flight plan, during specified hours. Logically you could evacuate planes from the no-fly airports with outbound-only, fixed-time, beacon-code-required operations.

And as for flight training: as I understand it, the only flight schools free to operate are the ones where you can learn to fly a 767. After all, that training is done in a simulator, right? And simulator operations are full speed ahead. But pattern work in a Skyhawk in the middle of Iowa is forbidden.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

Fascinating, isn’t it. They want to protect the world from the perils of VFR. Give me a break - this is nothing more than any unecessary loss of freedom which serves no purpose except to create some illusion in some politican’s head. My friend and I filed IFR over the internet and flew right down LA basin. We never spoke to anyone in person about anything. So someone tell me how VFR is any worse than that.

5

You are absolutely correct. Dean makes the assumption that the restrictions in place are there for a rational reason. That’s not the way it is. After a national tragedy the pols and bureaucrats have to do something. That something may not have any practical effect other than inconvenience people or, as you say, put Skycaps out of business, but the general population, i.e. their constituents, see that measures are being taken and that reassures them that the Government is on top of things.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail shortly and things will return towards normal.

Meanwhile let’s be careful not to take our frustrations out against FSS and ATC people. In my experience flying last Sat and Sunday (IFR in beautiful VFR weather both days) they were all great and as helpful as could be.
Jerry Seckler N1970

We all recognize the role of symbolism in these “security” efforts. Eg, you tell me how much good the ban on curbside check-in is going to do against terrorists like the current crop. All it’s guaranteed to do is impoverish a bunch of former skycaps. Still, it’s a “gesture.”

Making a gesture, rather than applying logical standards of risk assessment, is the only way I can explain the ongoing GA restrictions. My personal stake: N711DZ is one of a couple thousand GA airplanes still immobilized at the two dozen no-fly-zone airports near DCA and JFK. (Gaithersburg has 250; Teterboro has 200+; so does Leesburg; etc.) Stranded airliners were “evacuated” from National with a southbound-only (away from downtown Washington) flight plan, during specified hours. Logically you could evacuate planes from the no-fly airports with outbound-only, fixed-time, beacon-code-required operations.

And as for flight training: as I understand it, the only flight schools free to operate are the ones where you can learn to fly a 767. After all, that training is done in a simulator, right? And simulator operations are full speed ahead. But pattern work in a Skyhawk in the middle of Iowa is forbidden.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

Fascinating, isn’t it. They want to protect the world from the perils of VFR. Give me a break - this is nothing more than any unecessary loss of freedom which serves no purpose except to create some illusion in some politican’s head. My friend and I filed IFR over the internet and flew right down LA basin. We never spoke to anyone in person about anything. So someone tell me how VFR is any worse than that.

6

We all recognize the role of symbolism in these “security” efforts. Eg, you tell me how much good the ban on curbside check-in is going to do against terrorists like the current crop. All it’s guaranteed to do is impoverish a bunch of former skycaps. Still, it’s a “gesture.”

Making a gesture, rather than applying logical standards of risk assessment, is the only way I can explain the ongoing GA restrictions. My personal stake: N711DZ is one of a couple thousand GA airplanes still immobilized at the two dozen no-fly-zone airports near DCA and JFK. (Gaithersburg has 250; Teterboro has 200+; so does Leesburg; etc.) Stranded airliners were “evacuated” from National with a southbound-only (away from downtown Washington) flight plan, during specified hours. Logically you could evacuate planes from the no-fly airports with outbound-only, fixed-time, beacon-code-required operations.

And as for flight training: as I understand it, the only flight schools free to operate are the ones where you can learn to fly a 767. After all, that training is done in a simulator, right? And simulator operations are full speed ahead. But pattern work in a Skyhawk in the middle of Iowa is forbidden.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

Fascinating, isn’t it. They want to protect the world from the perils of VFR. Give me a break - this is nothing more than any unecessary loss of freedom which serves no purpose except to create some illusion in some politican’s head. My friend and I filed IFR over the internet and flew right down LA basin. We never spoke to anyone in person about anything. So someone tell me how VFR is any worse than that.

Good Points Jim (as always). I can only speculate that the ban on VFR flying is an attempt to limit thepossibility of flight (no pun intended) fromt he country.

The gov’ts high profile search is designed to make the terrorist move (A hunkered down person is a lot tougher to find.) but they don’t want them to leave the country. If cars can cross the border, this does not make much sence, but it is the gov’t.

MK

7

If I may,

Any one can relocate their airplane to an airport that you are allowed to fly from as long as you follow present rules.

Leesburg is open, I took off at 3 PM and returned 9:30 PM.

Flight training can go on as long as they meet the current rules (IFR).

I am ready to pull the plug…

We all recognize the role of symbolism in these “security” efforts. Eg, you tell me how much good the ban on curbside check-in is going to do against terrorists like the current crop. All it’s guaranteed to do is impoverish a bunch of former skycaps. Still, it’s a “gesture.”

Making a gesture, rather than applying logical standards of risk assessment, is the only way I can explain the ongoing GA restrictions. My personal stake: N711DZ is one of a couple thousand GA airplanes still immobilized at the two dozen no-fly-zone airports near DCA and JFK. (Gaithersburg has 250; Teterboro has 200+; so does Leesburg; etc.) Stranded airliners were “evacuated” from National with a southbound-only (away from downtown Washington) flight plan, during specified hours. Logically you could evacuate planes from the no-fly airports with outbound-only, fixed-time, beacon-code-required operations.

And as for flight training: as I understand it, the only flight schools free to operate are the ones where you can learn to fly a 767. After all, that training is done in a simulator, right? And simulator operations are full speed ahead. But pattern work in a Skyhawk in the middle of Iowa is forbidden.

“We also now have a better idea of what national security officials are trying to protect,” said Boyer. "All of us can easily understand that they want to protect the major U.S. urban areas which contain our nation’s financial and government centers. They are also concerned about hub airports and commercial airline passengers.

“They also have a continuing concern about civilian flight training, which frankly, we have a little more difficulty understanding,” said Boyer.

Fascinating, isn’t it. They want to protect the world from the perils of VFR. Give me a break - this is nothing more than any unecessary loss of freedom which serves no purpose except to create some illusion in some politican’s head. My friend and I filed IFR over the internet and flew right down LA basin. We never spoke to anyone in person about anything. So someone tell me how VFR is any worse than that.

8

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail shortly and things will return towards normal.

Meanwhile let’s be careful not to take our frustrations out against FSS and ATC people. In my experience flying last Sat and Sunday (IFR in beautiful VFR weather both days) they were all great and as helpful as could be.

Hear hear. I finally got airborne today, IFR to Farmington NM to eat a burrito (definitely a national defense issue.) It was the usual Santa Fe day, 100 miles visibility, but since everybody was IFR (and there’s no radar coverage at KSAF) I had to wait for a departure and two arrivals before I could launch. The tower controller was extremely apologetic. “It’s OK, I’m just happy I can fly at all.” He sounded relieved when I said that.

I also had a very nice experience with the tower at FMN (visiting 40% of the towered civilian airports in the state of New Mexico in a day, not too shabby.) He not only apologized for my delay, but was very interested in the SR22.

On the bummer side, one of the line guys at SAF told me that the Jet Center has already laid off five workers with more layoffs to come. And the waitress in the restaurant at FMN (empty other than four cops watching CNN) said that business is terrible, between the lack of VFR traffic and the fact that you can’t park anywhere near the restaurant.

Hopefully with the latest improvements in the VFR outlook we can get some of the part 91-related economy running again.

9

I’ve been on the Wings Aloft 14 day instrument course through all this (just finished day 9). Conditions have gradually improved day by day. We did 4 days in simulators, then got airborne. The breakthrough was finding Belingham airport, which while in the US is controlled by Victoria Terminal (Canadian controllers). They were able to authorize multiple approaches and holds when all the US was largely locked down. IFR training is pretty open now, with multiple approaches and block airspace allocations for maneuvers. Wings’ instructors are trying to get their VFR students in to practice in Canada, where VFR flight is wide open. I’m sure the evolution of the VFR restrictions will follow the IFR pattern.

But the impact on Wings has been huge. They were on page one of the Seattle Times business section (with a photo of my N751CD in the background).

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/134343278_aviation19.html

-Curt

10

Leesburg is open, I took off at 3 PM and returned 9:30 PM.

Hi Woor – I got my hopes up, and then I checked the map again. Leesburg is 28 NM from the DCA VOR. It is OUTSIDE the 25NM no-fly zone.

Gaithersburg/Montgomery (and College Park, and Suburban, and Fort Meade, and Annapolis, and Freeway, and Indian Head, and a few others) are inside the zone. Manassas is right on the edge, at 24 miles from DCA, which is probably why they gave it a waiver.

From what I’ve heard from the FSS and the Montgomery FBO, no Part 91 airplanes are allowed even to take off from these no-fly-zone airports, and their New York counterparts. I’ve asked explicitly about “evacuation” / relocation flights, and they explicitly say: No.

I hope I’m wrong about this, and I hope you’re right. But I fear the reverse is so.

11

FREE AT LAST !!!

FREE AT LAST !!!

For almost all of you. According to local FSS, the 25-mile No Fly Zone around DCA and JFK still exists.
(That’s not what the Notam SEEMS to say, but it is what the briefer told me just now.)

12

FREE AT LAST !!!

FREE AT LAST !!!

For almost all of you. According to local FSS, the 25-mile No Fly Zone around DCA and JFK still exists.
(That’s not what the Notam SEEMS to say, but it is what the briefer told me just now.)

Looks like the folks at RHV dodged the bullet by about a mile. PAO and SQL and HWD et al will continue to be unhappy tho.

The ban on news choppers is interesting. What will LA folks do for entertainment without the daily police chase?

13

For you guys that are located within the 25NM zone by DCA, you can get your birds out into other airport and fly from the other airport IFR. If you need any help in doing that or finding out how to do it drop me an email and I will be glad to help you out. I did it yesterday and it is no problem.

Cheers,

Woor

FREE AT LAST !!!

FREE AT LAST !!!

For almost all of you. According to local FSS, the 25-mile No Fly Zone around DCA and JFK still exists.
(That’s not what the Notam SEEMS to say, but it is what the briefer told me just now.)

14

FREE AT LAST !!!

FREE AT LAST !!!

For almost all of you. According to local FSS, the 25-mile No Fly Zone around DCA and JFK still exists.
(That’s not what the Notam SEEMS to say, but it is what the briefer told me just now.)

I’m not a lawyer, and I don’t even play one on TV. But the way I read it is that you only have a no-fly zone for part 91 ops. With some amount of money and lawyers and time you could conceivably fly (once) under other regs. (For instance, you could become an accredited foreign air carrier.)

15

PAO and SQL and HWD et al will continue to be unhappy tho.<

Their reason for unhappiness is that they can’t operate VFR under the footprint of the new “enhanced Class B.” But all they have to do to escape is file an instrument plan. (Pilot not instrument rated? He could have an IFR pilot fly the plane to an outside-class-B airport.)

My reason for unhappiness is that I cannot operate AT ALL out of an airport within 25NM of DCA. The planes are trapped there. It’s adifference!

16

The ban on news choppers is interesting. What will LA folks do for entertainment without the daily police chase?

I kid you not that the traffic reporters have been doing their thing from their helicopters – ON THE GROUND. It ranks right up there with the dumbest things I’ve ever seen - though we are talking about the LA news media - which… well, never mind.

As for Mr. Free Flight - I’m in the club as SMO lies snug under LAX Class B. Though I do think it’s nice that they’ve renamed it – what is it “enhanced Class B”? Is that like certified pre-owned class B? Why don’t they just call it what it is, “F.O.” airspace.

17

As for Mr. Free Flight - I’m in the club as SMO lies snug under LAX Class B. Though I do think it’s nice that they’ve renamed it – what is it “enhanced Class B”? Is that like certified pre-owned class B?

Can you clear up poor old muddled Mr. FF here: even though you’re in the shadow of “New, Improved” Class B, you CAN fly from SMO, right? As long as you go IFR?

The point about the DC and NY-area airports is that ALL flight is still totally FORBIDDEN. Unless I’m really misunderstanding things, that doesn’t apply in any other Class B space – LAX, SFO, you name it. As I understand it, VFR flights are still taboo in “Enhanced Class B,” but IFR is fine. Does you understand it differently?

Confusedly, Mr. FF>

18

Yes - IFR is ok out of SMO. Unfortunately for my friends at the FBO/Flight school not only are all of his VFR renters grounded - but no flight training. Nice.

But you do get the award for the most screwed. It would make a good title for your next op-ed “Mr. Free-Flight grounded”

Here’s hoping the FAA or whoever will set up a procedure whereby you can at least ferry your plane to another airport.

Dean