Updated 2/6/04 !!!AirChart System Bulk Buy

Guest Discussion
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UPDATE !! PLEASE READ! 2/6/04

Unfortunately AirCharts is not going to offer COPA a discount this year for a variety of reasons. Since my original post stating this is down lower in the thread, I thought I’d update the orignal post. The only discount they do is at Oshkosh.
It’s still a great value and I plan on renewing.

Sorry for the confusion.
Jeff

It’s coming up on renewal time for those of us you have used the Aircharts System (www.airchart.com) over the year. Last year, Aircharts provided COPA with a 10% discount. I’ll try again for a discount but may be able to do better with a firm comittment of those who want to order.

For those not familiar with Aircharts, it’s a subscription service that provides all the necessary charts to fly legal for both IFR and VFR. Low enroute and sectionals are published in a bound volume called an Atlas and contain the entire US in one book. The plates are sent in standard NOS packaging (bound or loose) and are updated by the pilot every cycle from a mailing sent by Aircharts. There are 2 types of updates. One just lists the changes since the last update. One list all the changes since the beginning of the subscription year. The comprehensive update is sent every other time and a log in each of the atlas’s allow the pilot to log the updates and stay legal.

If you are interested, please send an email to jeffkrider@bellsouth.net and include the word Airchart in the subject line. I’ll call them the 1st week of February and let everyone know if that are able to extend COPA a deal this year and what the terms are.

My personal view is that the system worked well for me. I subscribed to the IFR low enroutes, full plates and VFR sectional. I also received the VFR Enroute and Topographical Atlas but they quickly became shelfware.

I thought the IFR low enroute and VFR sectional (they only provided the east coast last year but I believe they have both this year) were invaluable. It took a trip or 2 to figure out the page numbering but inflight re-routes became quite easy after that. Updates to the low enroutes were quite easy and well documented. It was great to have a full set of plates but found the updating to be another possible problem if I needed to divert and was under a time constraint in the cockpit. I would normally print out the current AOPA plates for my dest and alternates as updates and just slip them in the bound books. I will definitely buy the IFR and VFR Sectional Atlas’s but may take a conventional approach to the east coast plates.

Others may have differing opinions (please list them here!!) but having current charts last year costs me around 30% of a full subcription to NOS charts and plates.

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Jeff, Just got my notice. Told them I would renew but would await a better rate after you twisted their arm.
Richard

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Count me in.
Raj

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Often wondered about airchart systems. Perhaps those of you who use it can fill in a little color.

I understand you get one book at the start of the year, then update sheets every 28 days.

How ‘wrong’ does the book get over time? I get the impression that most things are pretty stable from cycle to cycle but is that true, or by the end of the year are you a mess of pencil marks? Have there been any updates, like a major move in a victor airway, or similar, which is very hard to apply yourself, or are most of them frequency changes and similar?

How good are the reproductions of the charts?

Is it worth getting plates also? Those do change and I find that often-used plates get disgusting anyway. I’m currently using a little java app I wrote to download plates off of AOPA and I print what I want and use a handheld for emergencies. If you use the airchart plates do you find yourself downloading a lot at the end of the year?

What subscription do most people get, or is the COPA discount only for one type? I thought the cockpit library or the flex kit would be the most useful.

Is there a good solution out there for the A/FD? There’s something crying out to be on a handheld device. I hate carting those things around.

In summary - what do you like best about the aircharts, what do you like least?

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I called them a few weeks back when I got my renewal notice in the mail. The man I spoke to said there were no COPA discounts for the coming year. It was a one time offer. Sorry.

I said thanks, wrung off, and put the notice aside hoping to hear from you. If we can get a discount count me in.

And thanks for your efforts last year and this year!

Bill

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Jeff,

I’m in, if you’ll have me!

  • Mike.
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Jeff, I am unfamiliar, but interested. Let me see if I got this:

  1. Airchart replaces all of my Jepps and I get the same 56 day cycle.

  2. Airchart also gives me a sectional equivalent in a combination package?

  3. It’s less expensive?

Seems too good to be true. Am I missing something?

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I just renewed, asked for the COPA discount, and was turned down. Last year they retroactively applied the COPA discount for me, so if you are successful I’ll be looking for that again!

Thanks.

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I just spoke with Mike Barker at AirChart and am sad to say that he will not be continuing the COPA discount this year. He cited concern over fairness to long time subscribers. He and the rest of the company leadership discussed it and decided not to offer an incentive this year. The only promotions that they offer are Oshkosh and the AOPA convention. As a business person, I can understand his view.

Sorry to report this but it is still a great value and convenience for those who want to buy at list.

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I would like more info on these charts it sound like the smart why to go how big and heavy are they

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Please add me to your list. I subscribed to the full system which I note they are changing this year. Cost was about $365.00
Kudos for your idea.
Bob N6CD SR22 #0037

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Count me in

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I am in. I Have used them before I just need the IFR and the VFR for all of US. Let me know the rate I will hold off on there renewal notice. Thanks from Don

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In reply to:

How good are the reproductions of the charts?

Roland,

In my opinion the IFR Atlas is excellent. It’s so much easier to use the the fold out charts from Jipp. I just renewed my IFR package and also purchased the VFR Sectional charts (East and West) because my wife likes to follow along and track our flight visually, even though I mostly file IFR. Also makes you legal if you cancel IFR near your destination.

In reply to:

Is it worth getting plates also?

I’ve used thier plates for a year now (I’ll do anything to not use a Jipp product). Actually I prefer to use this system since we do quite a bit of cross country flights, need the whole US and find this so much easier then the Jepp, “you gotta keep replacing the upgraded plates”

I talked to Air charts in Jan when I renewed and they wouldn’t honor the COPA 10% discount since they need at least 40 members to get the discount. They did give me a special deal though. (I’m a good nogotiator!)

Walt

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In reply to:

Often wondered about airchart systems. Perhaps those of you who use it can fill in a little color.

OK, I’ll take a swing at it.

In reply to:

I understand you get one book at the start of the year, then update sheets every 28 days.

You get the IFR Atlas, containing low-altitude NACO IFR charts for the Continental US. I believe the update cycle is 56 days.

In reply to:

How ‘wrong’ does the book get over time? I get the impression that most things are pretty stable from cycle to cycle but is that true, or by the end of the year are you a mess of pencil marks?

It doesn’t get very wrong in my experience, especially since all you do in practice is to review the charts relevent for your upcoming flight and make and note any changes that apply to you. This is the biggest benefit. Instead of slogging though tons of updates for places you never go, you only review and apply the updates for your actual flights.

In reply to:

Have there been any updates, like a major move in a victor airway, or similar, which is very hard to apply yourself, or are most of them frequency changes and similar?

In my 300 hours of using them since March last year, I never had a “major” markup. Most are indeed frequencies, and these can be easily noted on the charts. (Since the navaid freqs are not needed by the GPS, in practice you don’t end up squinting at frequency changes anyway.)

In reply to:

How good are the reproductions of the charts?

I think they are excellent.

In reply to:

Is it worth getting plates also?

I think so. I just pop whichever books are relevent for my trip in a bag. Usually I’ll use the books, but I sometimes just print the latest from the AOPA site. I like having the books as backups, which I did need to reach for for unplanned alternates a couple times last year. This was a capability lacking in the JeppView subscription I canceled. (I am not in favor of wiring up my cockpit for laptop use yet.)

In reply to:

What subscription do most people get

I got the IFR Atlas, both VFR atlases (West Coast new this year), and the whole-US NACO plates. I think it was $350. A Bargain.

In reply to:

Is there a good solution out there for the A/FD?

I tend to use Airnav, despite being beat up by Scott about it (with some justification).

In reply to:

In summary - what do you like best about the aircharts, what do you like least?

Best: NO JEPP UPDATE HELL, quickly followed by low cost and convenience. What I don’t like: You have to get used to having the enroute charts chopped up into sections. I find that marking the course with removable hilighter tape during preflight takes care of this. Also, I like Jepp approach plates better than NACO, but having so much info in the Garmins (and Avidyne) makes up for some of this.

I liked the system enough to renew. You can try it risk-free.

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I agree with all of Gordon’s comments. I would just add that if any area has too many changes, you can simply buy the current chart or approach plates for that area from an FBO. The updates that you receive from Air Charts will apply to those new charts or plates until May when their annual cycle starts over with a new set of charts and plates.

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Thank you Gordon! That answers all of my questions as well.

I actually have my secretary do all of my Jepp “updates from hell” and I can tell when she’s doing them as she is not in a good mood…having done 'em myself for years I can feel her pain…[:)]…she was doing all of the out of way airports today that I know I’ll never fly to, but I didn’t have the heart to say anything as she was being so diligent…grouchy, but diligent…

Sounds and looks (per a review of their website) like a product that fits my needs…I’ll email Jeff with my “buy in”…

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In reply to:

I would like more info on these charts it sound like the smart why to go how big and heavy are they

Try this.

  • Mike.
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Please add me to the list

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Jeff,

Maybe you need to edit your original post to let people know this isn’t going to happen. Otherwise this thread may never die!