Trading up to a Cirrus

I agree completely, John. I also think that Anecdotes from renters are one thing, and paying for maintenance of your own aircraft yourself the other.

The NA is a little faster up to 10 k ft

Up to 17500 (NA ceiling) the NA is a bit slower and climbs slower but 17 k is easy to reach. Many NA’s make it to TBO, many T’s don’t.

Maintenance on NA is much cheaper (and still very expensive if you take care of everything)

G3 vs. G2: the difference in handling is very small and not detectable to a newcomer. Unimportant. The G2 has the same practical value as the G3, if six hours of non stop flying is enough for you.

The G2 model is by far the best deal out there, and if it has all the avionics options plus the DFC90 and oxygen you can do everything with it you could with a G3. The difference in price can typically buy an apartment at the beach.

And for 95 percent of all pilots, including me, FIKI or EVS never make a difference, and that’s why i bought an Avidyne G2 with DFC90 instead of a Perspective G3.

If money, maintenance cost and repairs was absolutely no criteria (and if i had no kids or other interests) I’d buy a G5 T. I will maybe buy a G5 one day because of the 5th seat and the higher payload. That’s what I find attractive. If you fly for fun mostly and if it’s you who’s paying for MX, then a late G2 is a deal you cannot beat.

And, really: don’t worry about the difference in handling! I’ve flown G1 (the very first one built), G2 and G3 and the difference when hand flying is really minor - not a factor. Other than 1 degree more dihedral in the G3 there is NO aerodynamic difference. The only other difference is the missing rudder-aileron interconnect in the G3, hardly noticeable.

Gavin - weekends are generally busy for me - next weekend is no exception. There will be one free… sometime. So if a weekend is better, you’ll have to be patient.

I can meet you on a weekday. If you need a business reason, you can buy a water tank, pressure vessel, or oil tank from me. :slight_smile: Or pitch something to me.

The climb bit is important. If you fly in winter the difference in the climb rates can be the difference in getting on top. I really wonder about a FIKI NA. I fly the NA’s at 17K a lot but it is very different in a Turbo. (turbo = effortless)

I think most of these engines make it to TBO. Most (NA and TN and T) seem to get a bit of cylinder work along the way. In an NA, Cylinder work is less troublesome because you don’t have to pull off so much plumbing to get to a cylinder.

When I work in the shop with Tim, my mechanic, we cuss 'ole George Braly regularly. When I take that same bird flying, I sing George’s praises; kinda like playing golf.

At the end of the day, I have decided that in dollars per knot, the TN beats the NA. In dollars per mile it’s almost a wash. In dollars per flight hour, the NA wins handily.

Before you cuss George Braly, recognize that the madate to build the TN system fir the Cirrus was to NOT alter the cowling in any way. With their Bona za conversion, a new cowling was needed which came at a significant codt all passed on to the customer.

So, what ever extra labor is needed to work on a Cirrus TN, the money saved on the design excluding cowling mods makes up for it.

I really think cowl flaps on the SR2Xs would allow for more rapid climbs, and would extend the life of these TN and T engines. How difficult are they to engineer, and how expensive to include with a new airplane? Forget about an STC, that much I know ($$$).

John,

I agree that equipping that Bonanza (or an NA Cirrus) changes the game.

That’s a good way to put it, Trip – Dollars per Flight Hour! As a private pilot who (mostly) flies for fun the rate per HOUR is what mostly interests me. I don’t really care to get anywhere FASTER than i can in the NA. Actually I always hate it that I have to land :slight_smile:

An hour in my G2 costs about USD 520 here in Germany, all included, USD 178 per hour for gas. And that does not include any financing because i paid for the plae in cash. It does include savings for a new engine, prop, maintenance, annual, insurance, hangar, data subscriptions, repairs, parts, cosmetics. I think that’s expensive enough. It is for me.

If i used it more as a business machine and if i was flying in very bad weather, which I don’t, and if money was no factor, then I’d take the T.

I have the feeling that my next Cirrus will be a G5 NA :slight_smile: My favourite flying is Flight Level 110 with 13.2 GPH and 172 KTAS … and on the days I typically fly I can get almost anywhere. (In Germany Flight Levels start at 5000 ft)

Understood on weekends. Hopefully something will shake free sooner than later. Thanks.

$13/gal doesn’t sound like fun. I think I would likely pick up a new avocation.

It wouldn’t be very expensive to add to a new plane, particularly when amortizing the cost over many units. OTOH, Cirrus has tried very hard since the beginning to engineer a plane that is easier to operate. I don’t mean to suggest cowl flaps are difficult to operate, but it flies in the face of Cirrus’s general attitude towards simplicity. No prop control being a good example of that. It took a lot more to engineer the combined prop/ throttle mechanism than it would have to just put a prop control in.

It certainly would help some planes, particularly early 20’s, in the cooling department. If I flew a 20 I certainly would want one.

You bet we’re big fans of LOP over here :slight_smile: $ 13/Gallon in Germany as well, over 15 in Italy … I spent 22K Dollars on fuel last year …

That’s my understanding as well–although one could argue that the Perspective Avionics package itself “flies in the face of…simplicity.” [:P]

I have experienced that [;)]

I am not really mad at George. But, it is a PIA to take al that stuff off to get to some components. Not really George’s fault either. They did an outstanding job and compared to removing the cowling on an SR22T, it’s a snap.

Removing the lower cowl on a T isn’t near as hard as installing it. One of these is a must to get the air intake hoses on.

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Brian,

The cowling on the TN is in fact altered. It has cooling louvers on the bottom which are much like a cowl flap that is always open.