SR22 vs. Columbia 300

Hi --Whoa! Take a few steps back, and ask yourself who runs a better business? Who is more likely to have the capitalization to provide the infrastructure and support for an aircraft once it is delivered? In my opinion, the Klapmeier boys have a far stronger track record, and have demonstrated a better ability to make the difficult transition from enthusiast-based business to what the accountants would term a going-enterprise. They won. Lancair will follow Mooney.

The above is simply not true - the two companies have followed different business plans from the start. Moreover, Cirrus was a marginally successful kit maker with one design. Lancair is a legend in aircraft design. Both companies have had capitalization problems which have been solved.

If you go back on this forum several months ago, you will find nervous posts about whether or not Cirrus was going to survive. They sell the SR20 at a loss, and then delayed it to sell another model at a profit.

Point of all this? Both companies will do fine. My guess is there will be a lot more CIrri out there for a while, with a more quality control problems that are taken care of by better customer service. Cirrus will be BMW or Mercedes in size. Lancair will be Porsche in size. Both will thrive because Cessna and the rest are as out of touch as GM was in the late 70’s.

Fly both planes, and pick the one you like

Dean, I respectfully disagree, though I suspect our disagreement may be based more on the relative weight we assign to various factors than to a disagreement on the facts. Here are my assumptions:

  1. $100m in capitalization is hard to ignore.

  2. An established service network is also

    hard to ignore.

  3. An order book that stretches out several years

    has value.

  4. A demonstrated ability to build aircraft in

    volume is important.

  5. The “best” product does not inevitably win.

    Begging the question as to whether Lancair is

    better than Cirrus, it is a fact that the
    landscape is littered with better ideas that

    failed, ranging from Sony Beta video recorders

    to Mooneys with Porsche engines.

  6. I simply do not agree that the market will

    support a “boutique” manufacturer like

    Lancair, when a more business-oriented
    endeavor building a very similar product

    like Cirrus occupies the same
    territory.

  7. I hope they both do well, but if I had to

    bet my 401K, I’d put my money on DLH.

Best, Dave

I agree with most of your points, actually. I’m sure Lancair would love the 100M ! And while they have a year back-log I think it’s about 150 planes. I absolutely agree that if you had to put a gun to your head and say which company is going to be around for three years - Cirrus is 100%.

Ultimately though, I think there is PLENTY of room for both Cirrus and Lancair. Cirrus is about two years ahead of Lancair in everything right now - so I’m not sure it is even possible to compare the companies. Certainly Cirrus isn’t going anywhere. But my sense is not that Lancair will be boutique forever, but that it is progressing slower all-around. Is that a mistake? Perhaps - on the other hand if Lancair can be profitable on 200 planes a yr and Cirrus needs , say, 600, then I wonder what happens in say - five years. Moreover, Lancair has, in my opinion two very exciting GA singles on the horizon. The 400, and the 400RG (no it’s not announced, but is part of their design philosophy) Personally, I’d take a 400 over an SR22 if I could get my hands on. Especially when you consider that all SR2X’s delivered right now will have to be significantly modified in they want to be a part of HITS - due to the panel limitations of the SR2X. And that unlike Lancair, Cirrus is not persuing a retrofittable icing solution at this time.

Bottom line - I believe/hope both will be fine - and that it is Piper and Cessna and Raytheon that will be hurting. In the meantime, you get to fly your Cirrus and I get to fly my 260SE - count us both lucky :slight_smile:

I agree completely with your comment that this forum is very important to prospective purchasers. If I ever buy a Cirrus aircraft it will largely be as a result of all that I have learned from this forum over the past several years. My concern is that it may be going away. The new Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association website has a discussion forum (which will apparently replace this one) that is split between public access and member access. It appears that all of the activity is in the member only section. That would leave nothing for the rest of us.

My suggestion would be to make the COPA discussion forums open to everyone in read-only mode, and only allow members to post.

I went through a similar debate a few months ago. There were two key deciding factors. One was availability. Since the 22 is in real production, I was able to get a plane 30 days after I decided on it, paying a premium that is not really any higher than the COLA adjustments likely to come while you wait.

But the second is very serious, and it is this forum. You cannot overestimate the benefit of the transparancy this forum brings to a manufacturer. I consider this forum a mandatory part of my preflight planning, just like the weather. I want to know NOW if there are any issues discovered with my new design plane.

-Curt

I agree completely with your comment that this forum is very important to prospective purchasers. If I ever buy a Cirrus aircraft it will largely be as a result of all that I have learned from this forum over the past several years. My concern is that it may be going away. The new Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association website has a discussion forum (which will apparently replace this one) that is split between public access and member access. It appears that all of the activity is in the member only section. That would leave nothing for the rest of us.

My suggestion would be to make the COPA discussion forums open to everyone in read-only mode, and only allow members to post.

Please don’t take offense but look at it this way.

The cost of membership is $50.00, not much more than a magazine subscription. You don’t have to be an airplane owner or position holder to join. For this, look at all the benefits to yourself in knowledge and entertainment, but also to the future value of the plane and owners.

Myers

I went through a similar debate a few months ago. There were two key deciding factors. One was availability. Since the 22 is in real production, I was able to get a plane 30 days after I decided on it, paying a premium that is not really any higher than the COLA adjustments likely to come while you wait.

But the second is very serious, and it is this forum. You cannot overestimate the benefit of the transparancy this forum brings to a manufacturer. I consider this forum a mandatory part of my preflight planning, just like the weather. I want to know NOW if there are any issues discovered with my new design plane.

-Curt