RNAV

I love the RNAV screen - why not leave it alone.

Don’t clutter it up. Have any of you suddenly been given a Victor airway? Would you rather fumble for a chart or push a button on the RNAV? I wouldn’t put the monitoring on the big screen even if it was perfect and if it was free.

I put the JPI EDM 800 in the space on the bolster below the switches. It is a perfect installation and is in just the right position for full time viewing for all of the engine and fuel monitoring attributes. Next to the JPI I put the STEC altitude select which is a far better spot than where Cirrus has put it in the SR22.

I love the RNAV screen - why not leave it alone.
Don’t clutter it up. Have any of you suddenly been given a Victor airway? Would you rather fumble for a chart or push a button on the RNAV? I wouldn’t put the monitoring on the big screen even if it was perfect and if it was free.

FWIW:

  • Like Gordy, I admire the big Arnav screen more in practice than I thought I would in theory. Best evidence from my point of view: a long flight I had to take with it out-of-service, which made me realize how much I relied on it.
  • Like many other people, I am concerned --> convinced that Arnav is falling behind in the tech race. Avidyne / UPS / etc can just display a much more highly varied range of info, as selectable by the pilot for different flight circumstances. No credible evidence of Arnav really getting on the ball.
  • Therefore, as Kevin M and others suggested in Arnav Agonistes, I hope – and more important, assume – Cirrus is taking this seriously, within the constraints of a contractual relationship. It is sobering, by analogy, to think what would have happened if Trimble had stayed in business – but had failed to keep up with Garmin. There might be the same awkward separation process I assume is going on with Arnav now.
    I assume this, based neither on (a) inside knowledge nor (b) simple hope, based on Cirrus’s track record of finding its way out of constraining circumstaces. IF Arnav does not improve, and Cirrus nonetheless sticks right with them, that will be the first such failure of adaptation in the company’s history – and therefore it’s not the default assumption now.

How much does the JPI EDM 800 cost including installation?

Where is the STEC altitude select? I have not seen the panel of the SR22 and presume that this is part of the center console?

I love the RNAV screen - why not leave it alone.

Don’t clutter it up. Have any of you suddenly been given a Victor airway? Would you rather fumble for a chart or push a button on the RNAV? I wouldn’t put the monitoring on the big screen even if it was perfect and if it was free.

I put the JPI EDM 800 in the space on the bolster below the switches. It is a perfect installation and is in just the right position for full time viewing for all of the engine and fuel monitoring attributes. Next to the JPI I put the STEC altitude select which is a far better spot than where Cirrus has put it in the SR22.

Arnav does not improve, and Cirrus nonetheless sticks right with them, that will be the first such failure of adaptation in the company’s history – and therefore it’s not the default assumption now.

I only hope that when they dump ARNAV that they make some sort of retrofit kit available to the current SR2x owners so they don’t have to get each individual replacement installation STC’d.

Arnav does not improve, and Cirrus nonetheless sticks right with them, that will be the first such failure of adaptation in the company’s history – and therefore it’s not the default assumption now.

I only hope that when they dump ARNAV that they make some sort of retrofit kit available to the current SR2x owners so they don’t have to get each individual replacement installation STC’d.

(See my post below regarding choice of MFD, of which the MX20 was my first choice.)

(See also my post below regarding list of STCs for the SR20).

UPSAT owns an STC to install MX20 MFD in the SR20…

If I hadn’t just spent $6k on Arnav engine monitoring, I might have wanted to put it toward an MX20 and a JPI…

[No, I don’t work for UPS. I just saw an MX20 installed in a Mooney in a neighboring tie-down and was blown away. For some reason, I get blown away more easily by seeing it in person in the field than I do at all the neato trade show demos]

Also – sorry for the rambling post – to speak to Gordy or RIK’s comment about the Arnav displaying the victor airways, and thus not needing a chart when the controller tells you to “intercept V12” for example:

Yes that’s true. BUT - I actually would get the chart out anyway. In fact last week I was told to intercept a Victor airway and got the chart out… Why? Because my Arnav database is now several months old, not to mention placarded for reference only. Why don’t I keep it up to date? Cuz it’s $200 a pop to keep up to date!

Yes, I could probably have assumed the airway didn’t move since the Arnav db was created… But I hate to assume when IMC…

Steve

What’s an MX20 and JPI?

Arnav does not improve, and Cirrus nonetheless sticks right with them, that will be the first such failure of adaptation in the company’s history – and therefore it’s not the default assumption now.

I only hope that when they dump ARNAV that they make some sort of retrofit kit available to the current SR2x owners so they don’t have to get each individual replacement installation STC’d.

(See my post below regarding choice of MFD, of which the MX20 was my first choice.)

(See also my post below regarding list of STCs for the SR20).

UPSAT owns an STC to install MX20 MFD in the SR20…

If I hadn’t just spent $6k on Arnav engine monitoring, I might have wanted to put it toward an MX20 and a JPI…

[No, I don’t work for UPS. I just saw an MX20 installed in a Mooney in a neighboring tie-down and was blown away. For some reason, I get blown away more easily by seeing it in person in the field than I do at all the neato trade show demos]

Also – sorry for the rambling post – to speak to Gordy or RIK’s comment about the Arnav displaying the victor airways, and thus not needing a chart when the controller tells you to “intercept V12” for example:

Yes that’s true. BUT - I actually would get the chart out anyway. In fact last week I was told to intercept a Victor airway and got the chart out… Why? Because my Arnav database is now several months old, not to mention placarded for reference only. Why don’t I keep it up to date? Cuz it’s $200 a pop to keep up to date!

Yes, I could probably have assumed the airway didn’t move since the Arnav db was created… But I hate to assume when IMC…

Steve

Why? Because my Arnav database is now several months old, not to mention placarded for reference only. Why don’t I keep it up to date? Cuz it’s $200 a pop to keep up to date!

The Arnav database update prices are based on the cost from Jeppensen, not Arnav. Same goes for UPSAT and the MX-20. I have both units installed in my 54’ Cessna 180. I spoke with UPSAT folks at the latest EAA Northwest Fly-in at Arlington, WA. I asked when the Jeppensen approach plate display on the MX-20 would be ready. They said that it would be pretty soon, (read month or so) but that I might not want it. The cost would be about $2500.00 for the initial “rights” to use the software, etc. and then an annual subscription rate of around $950.00. UPSAT asked Jepp if they could lower the price and were told “NO”. Futhermore they were told to “go to the competition if you don’t like our price, Oh, sorry about that, there is no competition”. So you guys shouldn’t be blaming Arnav, UPSAT or any of the other outfits about the prices of keeping current. Boeing now owns Jeppensen and with what they paid for the purchase, I wouldn’t expect to see the prices go down anytime soon.

Also, the UPSAT MX-20 display is not approved for IFR use either. It, like the ICDS-200 Arnav display is for “VFR Reference” only. There are FAA certification issues that make it pretty much on the impossible side to get it certified for IFR.

I said, “pretty much impossible”, not impossible. If you as the end user want it certified for IFR use, like the Boeings are, then it is only a matter of $$$$$$$$$. But if you had to pay the cost of a certified IFR model, who would not complain of the cost and want Cirrus or any other manuifacturer to change to a cheaper unit. Most anything that you want has to have compromises attached. I for one am glad to see the industry moving forward as fast as they are. I will also keep pushing (letter writing and involvement) for better technology and improvements. But I am not able to do all of this myself. It will take a conserted effort from quite a few of you guys to get things improved. I wrote the specs for the equipment for the FAA Project Capstone in Alaska which UPSAT has the contract. I have been involved in that project for almost 4 years now and it has been an uphill battle. But we are making headway. The same goes for Arnav. They really are the ones that “invented” the ADS-B Technology and debuted it at the Atlanta, Georgia Olympic Games. Arnav has been a real leader in change, but it has cost them a lot of time and money. Then, just when they seem to make some inroads, another manufacture jumps in (after seeing $$ signs) copies some of the work that Arnav has done in opening up the way, and starts showing their own equipment, with a little spin of improvements attached, which, I might add, usually aren’t yet approved, but “will be soon”, depending on what the market looks like.

Jim

What’s an MX20 and JPI?

Don,

An MX20 is one of many MFDs available out there; that one is made by http://www.upsat.comUPS Avionics.

http://www.jpinstruments.comJPI is a company that mades LED bar-graph engine analyzers, fuel flow calculators, etc. In the context of this board, we’re usually talking about the engine analysis product, for use in comparison to the Arnav EngineView product.

Neither is a monopoly. If you’re interested, competing MFDs are made by Bendix/King, Avidyne, possibly Garmin (if you consider the 530 an MFD), Arnav, and others. Competing engine monitors are made by Insight and at least one other company (EI I think?)…

Steve

Where is the STEC altitude select? I have not seen the panel of the SR22 and presume that this is part of the center console?

It’s in the upper right part of the left panel.

See www.employees.org/~dkatz/Panel_left.jpg (but bring lots of bandwidth–it’s huge.)