Ownership travails; advice requested (long)

Guest Discussion
1

Like many of you I opted to own an aircraft because I wanted to fly more often, more safely, and more comfortably than was possible via rentals or flying club membership. I spent a fair amount of time researching various aspects of aircraft ownership and concluded that it was possible to do this at a cost competitive with renting if I flew at least 150-200 hr/year. I am on the SR22 waiting list and as many of you know about 10 months ago I brought home a modified/refurbished C182, a 260se/stol. The point of this is NOT to compare airplanes, but rather to solicit comparative perspectives on aircraft ownership.

It has not been all beer and skittles.

The plane was down for two months last summer while the crankshaft was replaced in its TCM “Fool’s Gold Medallion Engine” as per AD.

Insurance costs went up 60% from 2000 to 2001, and I had to shop extensively to find equivalent coverage even for 60% more. I am not a low time pilot (1000+ hr, IFR, no accidents/incidents). This amounted to an instantaneous $10/hr increase in flying costs, even spread out over 200 hr. Fuel of course went up 20-30% too. These things are true for us all I’m sure, and they are irritating but manageable.

The real stunner has been maintenance. Not cost–which is high at $75-$85/hr shop rate–so much as availability. I anticipated the cost, although perhaps not how many hr any particular item may take to fix. However, even for the most minor of things to be fixed, there is regularly a 1-2 week wait just to get in to a maintenance shop here at PAO, even before any work is started. A recent example: my plane’s encoder needed fixing in February (1.5 week wait, then 4-5 days to fix it) and now requires replacement (the fix didn’t “take”): another week’s wait and still counting. Extrapolating my current experience over a one year period predicts 1.5-2 months’ downtime annually for maintenance–unacceptable for me. While a new Cirrus (we hope) won’t have as many minor maintenance needs, still it is likely that I would have to take it to MRY or SCK where there are Cirrus Service Centers. Because of work and family demands it is not practical for me to take the time to fly the plane out of the SF Bay Area each time it needs minor maintenance.

The net outcome is that for me, living where I do, this experience has in aggregate pushed aircraft ownership to the very outermost edge of the “value” equation. As much as I love to fly, the hassle/annoyance of repeated delays is adding up fast in the “negative” column. What is other people’s experience? Am I just unlucky this first 10 months? Will a new Cirrus be significantly less demanding for maintenance? Any advice will be appreciated.

2

What is other people’s experience? Am I just unlucky this first 10 months? Will a new Cirrus be significantly less demanding for maintenance? Any advice will be appreciated.

Well, FWIW, Kevin, my partners and I have put around 500 hours on VH-CRF in 10 months or so, and had relatively little downtime. The longest was about a week while we waited for a new governor cable to arrive from the USA. Other than that there have been only a day or two here and there that it’s been in the shop unexpectedly.

I do think a new plane will deliver better reliability, but the wait to get your 260 into the shop is clearly your biggest problem.

Clyde

3

Kevin,

don’t know about whether you’re unlucky or not, I haven’t made that experience myself yet. I am rather surprised though that you get to fly at club prices with only ca. 200 hours.
My own calculations (with local bias of course) put me somewhere in the 300+ hour range …

Good luck!

Like many of you I opted to own an aircraft because I wanted to fly more often, more safely, and more comfortably than was possible via rentals or flying club membership. I spent a fair amount of time researching various aspects of aircraft ownership and concluded that it was possible to do this at a cost competitive with renting if I flew at least 150-200 hr/year. I am on the SR22 waiting list and as many of you know about 10 months ago I brought home a modified/refurbished C182, a 260se/stol. The point of this is NOT to compare airplanes, but rather to solicit comparative perspectives on aircraft ownership.

It has not been all beer and skittles.

The plane was down for two months last summer while the crankshaft was replaced in its TCM “Fool’s Gold Medallion Engine” as per AD.

Insurance costs went up 60% from 2000 to 2001, and I had to shop extensively to find equivalent coverage even for 60% more. I am not a low time pilot (1000+ hr, IFR, no accidents/incidents). This amounted to an instantaneous $10/hr increase in flying costs, even spread out over 200 hr. Fuel of course went up 20-30% too. These things are true for us all I’m sure, and they are irritating but manageable.

The real stunner has been maintenance. Not cost–which is high at $75-$85/hr shop rate–so much as availability. I anticipated the cost, although perhaps not how many hr any particular item may take to fix. However, even for the most minor of things to be fixed, there is regularly a 1-2 week wait just to get in to a maintenance shop here at PAO, even before any work is started. A recent example: my plane’s encoder needed fixing in February (1.5 week wait, then 4-5 days to fix it) and now requires replacement (the fix didn’t “take”): another week’s wait and still counting. Extrapolating my current experience over a one year period predicts 1.5-2 months’ downtime annually for maintenance–unacceptable for me. While a new Cirrus (we hope) won’t have as many minor maintenance needs, still it is likely that I would have to take it to MRY or SCK where there are Cirrus Service Centers. Because of work and family demands it is not practical for me to take the time to fly the plane out of the SF Bay Area each time it needs minor maintenance.

The net outcome is that for me, living where I do, this experience has in aggregate pushed aircraft ownership to the very outermost edge of the “value” equation. As much as I love to fly, the hassle/annoyance of repeated delays is adding up fast in the “negative” column. What is other people’s experience? Am I just unlucky this first 10 months? Will a new Cirrus be significantly less demanding for maintenance? Any advice will be appreciated.

4

Hello Kevin,

Being a maintenance person myself, I know how hard it is to get a bird in a shop, then the shop does not care about you because there is a line of other customers waiting…

My best solution is to look around during the week days and see what is going on in the small hangars. You need to find a reliable mechanic that will work on your plane. There are plenty of good people working on their own, sometimes these people care more for your airplane then the big shop. Let me know what you find. To me this is also important because I know I am helping the small business person that is trying hard. One thing I don’t understand, why a mechanic in Kmart makes more money then one working on a flying machine (not to mentioned the schooling required), and a person driving a city bus makes more money then a certified flight instructor.

Something is wrong somewhere. Have a great Cirrus day.

Like many of you I opted to own an aircraft because I wanted to fly more often, more safely, and more comfortably than was possible via rentals or flying club membership. I spent a fair amount of time researching various aspects of aircraft ownership and concluded that it was possible to do this at a cost competitive with renting if I flew at least 150-200 hr/year. I am on the SR22 waiting list and as many of you know about 10 months ago I brought home a modified/refurbished C182, a 260se/stol. The point of this is NOT to compare airplanes, but rather to solicit comparative perspectives on aircraft ownership.

It has not been all beer and skittles.

The plane was down for two months last summer while the crankshaft was replaced in its TCM “Fool’s Gold Medallion Engine” as per AD.

Insurance costs went up 60% from 2000 to 2001, and I had to shop extensively to find equivalent coverage even for 60% more. I am not a low time pilot (1000+ hr, IFR, no accidents/incidents). This amounted to an instantaneous $10/hr increase in flying costs, even spread out over 200 hr. Fuel of course went up 20-30% too. These things are true for us all I’m sure, and they are irritating but manageable.

The real stunner has been maintenance. Not cost–which is high at $75-$85/hr shop rate–so much as availability. I anticipated the cost, although perhaps not how many hr any particular item may take to fix. However, even for the most minor of things to be fixed, there is regularly a 1-2 week wait just to get in to a maintenance shop here at PAO, even before any work is started. A recent example: my plane’s encoder needed fixing in February (1.5 week wait, then 4-5 days to fix it) and now requires replacement (the fix didn’t “take”): another week’s wait and still counting. Extrapolating my current experience over a one year period predicts 1.5-2 months’ downtime annually for maintenance–unacceptable for me. While a new Cirrus (we hope) won’t have as many minor maintenance needs, still it is likely that I would have to take it to MRY or SCK where there are Cirrus Service Centers. Because of work and family demands it is not practical for me to take the time to fly the plane out of the SF Bay Area each time it needs minor maintenance.

The net outcome is that for me, living where I do, this experience has in aggregate pushed aircraft ownership to the very outermost edge of the “value” equation. As much as I love to fly, the hassle/annoyance of repeated delays is adding up fast in the “negative” column. What is other people’s experience? Am I just unlucky this first 10 months? Will a new Cirrus be significantly less demanding for maintenance? Any advice will be appreciated.

5

Kevin, I purchased a very low hours Piper Warrior II two years ago, while I was waiting for my SR20. This plane was in great shape, and a relatively low cost plane to maintain.

I love having the plane, and it’s allowed me to fly when I want, equipped as I want, and I think safer. Also, I have to say that it’s been maintained by an great FBO (Thunder Aviation, St. Louis) who is a Cirrus repair facility to-boot.

My observation is this. Ownership has been terriffic, and has exceeded my expectations on all counts, including cost. (Regarding cost, exceeded in the negative sense.) Under the best of circumstances, with a good plane that is one of the cheaper ones to maintain, and a great FBO, I believe that it’s the most expensive mode of transportation imaginable. More than renting, more than being a member of a club, more than driving, more than TWA, more than walking, probably more than taking a limo, etc. I believe that even with warranty service, the Cirrus will be more expensive, due to the initial cost of the airplane versus the Warrior.

I think that the payoff is in satisfaction, not economics. I love owning a plane, and it has been one of my life’s economic priorities. I haven’t found the way to justify it by any other means!

Good luck.

Like many of you I opted to own an aircraft because I wanted to fly more often, more safely, and more comfortably than was possible via rentals or flying club membership. I spent a fair amount of time researching various aspects of aircraft ownership and concluded that it was possible to do this at a cost competitive with renting if I flew at least 150-200 hr/year. I am on the SR22 waiting list and as many of you know about 10 months ago I brought home a modified/refurbished C182, a 260se/stol. The point of this is NOT to compare airplanes, but rather to solicit comparative perspectives on aircraft ownership.

It has not been all beer and skittles.

The plane was down for two months last summer while the crankshaft was replaced in its TCM “Fool’s Gold Medallion Engine” as per AD.

Insurance costs went up 60% from 2000 to 2001, and I had to shop extensively to find equivalent coverage even for 60% more. I am not a low time pilot (1000+ hr, IFR, no accidents/incidents). This amounted to an instantaneous $10/hr increase in flying costs, even spread out over 200 hr. Fuel of course went up 20-30% too. These things are true for us all I’m sure, and they are irritating but manageable.

The real stunner has been maintenance. Not cost–which is high at $75-$85/hr shop rate–so much as availability. I anticipated the cost, although perhaps not how many hr any particular item may take to fix. However, even for the most minor of things to be fixed, there is regularly a 1-2 week wait just to get in to a maintenance shop here at PAO, even before any work is started. A recent example: my plane’s encoder needed fixing in February (1.5 week wait, then 4-5 days to fix it) and now requires replacement (the fix didn’t “take”): another week’s wait and still counting. Extrapolating my current experience over a one year period predicts 1.5-2 months’ downtime annually for maintenance–unacceptable for me. While a new Cirrus (we hope) won’t have as many minor maintenance needs, still it is likely that I would have to take it to MRY or SCK where there are Cirrus Service Centers. Because of work and family demands it is not practical for me to take the time to fly the plane out of the SF Bay Area each time it needs minor maintenance.

The net outcome is that for me, living where I do, this experience has in aggregate pushed aircraft ownership to the very outermost edge of the “value” equation. As much as I love to fly, the hassle/annoyance of repeated delays is adding up fast in the “negative” column. What is other people’s experience? Am I just unlucky this first 10 months? Will a new Cirrus be significantly less demanding for maintenance? Any advice will be appreciated.

6

Dude

Hope that is not the norm. Just bought a 79

T182RG with a 20 hours on the engine. Look forward to the day when I can plunk down 30K for a SR22. But at least this plane will do 160kts

(as long as the parachute is inside)

Craig T.

7

Hi Kevin – Really sorry for the bad luck with your nifty plane. (Note to onlookers: it IS nifty, as I know from Kevin’s having given me a ride in it.)

As a data point, not as conclusive proof, my experience in the last three months has been much more positive. I had one unfortunate start-up episode, a theft from the plane. But after that it has required only minor maintenance – and I have found TopGun in Stockton to be VERY good in doing the work and scheduling convenient times to do so. I wish it were at my current home airport, CCR, rather than a 20 minute flight (and 60 minute drive) away. But I feel as if that’s been a minor, reasonable nuisance rather than a major factor.

In short: as others have pointed out, you can’t make a case for a new plane on cost grounds. They’re luxuries. But my experience with the Cirrus on enjoyment, convenience, and sustainability grounds has been very positive.

(Knocking wood now.)

8

Owning an airplane hasn’t been more expensive than renting in my experience. I just sold my 180HP 172 for more than I paid for it. After doing the math and adding up the improvements, cost, insurance, tiedowns, fuel, annuals, maintenance, etc, my total cost to fly was $44 per hour (obviously though tying up money in the process). And I got access to a plane anytime I wanted. More over, since many of my trips are cross countries, I don’t have to worry about the “minimum” charges that you would get while having the plane all day or over a weekend. The new cirrus in my future I don’t expect to be less due to the substantially higher acquisition and insurance costs. However that is not the reason I’m getting it. As was mentioned, safety and convenience play the major parts. Also we are all purchasing lower maintenance bills in the form of a warranty and new parts.